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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Classic Rock Junkie wrote:
Impact, Originality, and Technicality sound good to me. Impact being when it came out how big did the album hit the drum world? Was it the center of attention and were people raving about it? Did it end up leading to people trying to adapt the style after that single album? Originality is easy, how original was the style on the album? How original was the drumming as a whole? Technicality doesn't need a description.


Are you serious, technicality as ONE THIRD of the criteria? Get ready to get the top 20 bombarded by Dream Theater albums...

I think impact, originality and technicality should all factor in...but weighted equally, really?

Also Neg I see literally no reason for Moving Pictures to be #2. Did it introduce ANYTHING new to drumming? I don't see it having ANY claim over Rubber Soul, Who's Next, Tommy, Fresh Cream, Fragile OR Close to the Edge, or even say Discipline...

I think Who's Next should be Keith's #1


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Ariel wrote:
Classic Rock Junkie wrote:
Impact, Originality, and Technicality sound good to me. Impact being when it came out how big did the album hit the drum world? Was it the center of attention and were people raving about it? Did it end up leading to people trying to adapt the style after that single album? Originality is easy, how original was the style on the album? How original was the drumming as a whole? Technicality doesn't need a description.


Are you serious, technicality as ONE THIRD of the criteria? Get ready to get the top 20 bombarded by Dream Theater albums...

I think impact, originality and technicality should all factor in...but weighted equally, really?

Also Neg I see literally no reason for Moving Pictures to be #2. Did it introduce ANYTHING new to drumming? I don't see it having ANY claim over Rubber Soul, Who's Next, Tommy, Fresh Cream, Fragile OR Close to the Edge, or even say Discipline...

I think Who's Next should be Keith's #1


Again you're getting hung up on originality, which is 1/4 of the criteria.
Impact, influence and technicality are all very high for Moving Pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Impact + influence for Moving Pictures is high but a joke compared to...

Reign in Blood
probably several Beatles albums
Fresh Cream
Led Zeppelin and probably LZII also
The Who Sell Out, Tommy & Who's Next
and probably even Black Sabbath + Paranoid


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Ariel wrote:
Impact + influence for Moving Pictures is high but a joke compared to...

Reign in Blood
probably several Beatles albums
Fresh Cream
Led Zeppelin and probably LZII also
The Who Sell Out, Tommy & Who's Next
and probably even Black Sabbath + Paranoid


I wouldn't say a joke, and there's no way that Black Sabbath, Paranoid, or any Beatles album were being lauded for drumming upon their release.
The others, yeah they're some strong competition.

But Moving Pictures also takes ALL of those albums in technicality.
Influence and impact is also comparable.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:06 am 
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Why the fuck is Who's Next in the top ten on this list? How can something anyone can learn to play in a year be top ten worthy? Shit, drumming so simple shouldn't even be in the top 100. Let's get some more Bonham triplets in the top ten! Now that shit's impressive!


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:20 am 
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I disagree, I think randomly hitting different drums with no discipline and control is MUCH more impressive!

Less technique, more standard tom rolls and primitive pounding. Now THAT shit's impressive!


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:29 am 
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Keith Moon hit drums randomly = false.
Keith Moon played with no discipline = false.
Keith Moon played with no control = uber false.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:06 am 
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Everything you have said on this forum thus far = false.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:10 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Everything you have said on this forum thus far = false.


^False.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:26 am 
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You're doing a pretty good job of trolling, I have to admit.
Hard to believe the comments I'm reading here are from the same person who so wonderfully defended Elvis in those classic arguments with Bruce.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:39 am 
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I think saying Keith Moon hit the drums randomly and with no discipline or control is TROLLING, because it's so obviously completely fucking wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:08 am 
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His drumming was all over the place. He wouldn't hold a steady beat for more than a few seconds before launching into something wilder and more "unorthodox". He was just a messy drummer. Powerful, intense, and probably had the most feeling of any rock drummer ever, but he was not an artist, his technique was limited, and he rarely deviated from his comfort zone to try new things (which is where Bruford pretty much kills everyone in rock).

If you disagree with this, fine. Just please shut up about it and allow us to move on.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:21 am 
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Negative Creep wrote:
His drumming was all over the place. He wouldn't hold a steady beat for more than a few seconds before launching into something wilder and more "unorthodox". He was just a messy drummer.


Wrong wrong wrong. There are no time issues on any of his recordings.

Negative Creep wrote:
Powerful, intense, and probably had the most feeling of any rock drummer ever, but he was not an artist,


Of course he was an artist.

Negative Creep wrote:
his technique was limited,


His technique was unorthodox and phenomenal.

Negative Creep wrote:
and he rarely deviated from his comfort zone to try new things


That's the one thing that's true.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:58 am 
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Quote:
Wrong wrong wrong. There are no time issues on any of his recordings.


Time issues?
I'm talking about his ability to hold down a steady beat. He doesn't do it for too long before he veers off into "drum leads" to steal the show.

Quote:
Of course he was an artist.


Playing drums is an art, and Keith was great, so in that respect - yes he was an artist.
But his musical vocabulary is just not on par with those others guys.
To me, a TRUE artist of drumming understands nuance, how to complement the other musicians, subtlety, diversity, constantly evolving and pushing themselves to better their art.
That just isn't Keith.
He was an artist, but not one of the highest caliber.

Quote:
His technique was unorthodox and phenomenal.


It was phenomenal for The Who's music, but definitely not phenomenal generally speaking.


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 Post subject: Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drumming Albums
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
Wrong wrong wrong. There are no time issues on any of his recordings.


Time issues?
I'm talking about his ability to hold down a steady beat. He doesn't do it for too long before he veers off into "drum leads" to steal the show.


So? He's perfectly capable of holding down a steady beat.

Negative Creep wrote:
Playing drums is an art, and Keith was great, so in that respect - yes he was an artist.


Of course. A great artist.

Negative Creep wrote:
But his musical vocabulary is just not on par with those others guys.
To me, a TRUE artist of drumming understands nuance, how to complement the other musicians, subtlety, diversity, constantly evolving and pushing themselves to better their art.
That just isn't Keith.


Keith Moon certainly knew how to complement Townshend, Entwistle and Daltrey. The best rock guitarists of his day wished he would deign to complement them. As for evolving, you don't hear an evolving drummer from My Generation to Tommy to Who's Next to Quadrophenia? I sure do.

Negative Creep wrote:
He was an artist, but not one of the highest caliber.


He's not a traditional technician of the highest caliber, but he is absolutely an artist of the highest caliber.

Negative Creep wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
His technique was unorthodox and phenomenal.


It was phenomenal for The Who's music, but definitely not phenomenal generally speaking.


Hendrix, Page and Beck disagree.


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