DDD Forum :: View topic - The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

The combination of the gospel-derived harmonies of the Flames and the intense leads of brown made the group the undisputed leaders of the soul movement and the most explosive act in all of rock.

Sampson wrote:

The combination of the gospel-derived harmonies of the Flames and the intense leads of brown made the group the undisputed leaders of the soul movement and the most explosive act in all of rock.

Nuh, uh!

Percent of the population is the wrong standard to use. The right standard is what percent of the contribution to rock history is black, and that would be over 30%, and maybe closer to 40%.

ClashWho wrote:

That was a really good read, although I disagree with some of it. I'd love Sampson to do that sort of in-depth analysis of every induction year from the beginning.

You might already know this, but he has done a similar write-up for every year from 2006 to the present.

Brian wrote:

Percent of the population is the wrong standard to use. The right standard is what percent of the contribution to rock history is black, and that would be over 30%, and maybe closer to 40%.

Forty percent? I don't see it. Rock music has been the music of the masses for decades. Heck, generations. It's an American art form with notable British contributions. Whites have been the overwhelmingly dominant demographic of those nations over the course of rock music's reign. That holds true for listeners of rock music and performers of rock music. Black representation in the Rock Hall seems fine to me. It took eleven years for Black Sabbath to be inducted, so I'm not ready to bellyache about LL Cool J.

Author:	lew [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Here is the update: (the additions) OVERVIEW (the last 2 paragraphs are new) It's gotten to the point where the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame can be viewed like a private social club that once upon a time had the best of intentions and lofty ideals but along the way became increasingly controlled by a select few who attempted to steer it in a direction to suit their own personal and self-centered needs. In the process it has become the very thing rock 'n' roll itself has always railed against - moldy establishment figures dictating conformity and upholding the status quo, resistant to change and too narrow-minded to see their growing irrelevance as the musical landscape changes around them at lightning speed. Over the past decade the stagnant nominating committee and decrepit voting rolls have systematically turned the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame into a personal referendum on their own limited tastes and shortsighted view of what rock 'n' roll was, is and should be. The late 60's and early 70's period of rock continues to be given far too much attention, unsurprising considering the most visible members of the voting body came of age during that period. The overwhelming white male demographic among the voters perpetuates the racial neglect, as evidenced by the fact that six of the nine white nominated acts made it in this year while just one of the six black artists on the ballot got in, and he, Freddie King, was a bluesman who is far more idolized by white British guitarists than even known to black audiences today. As this disturbing trend continues the Hall of Fame refuses to address its most glaring problem, that those making the selections represent an inordinately small cultural demographic, and compounding the problem further is that by refusing to apply objective standards to the voting process and instead leaving it up to each voter's personal musical taste when casting their ballots the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame has become increasingly open to criticism and worse yet, completely irrelevant to accurately assessing rock history. While this year's inductees include some very deserving artists, notably Guns N' Roses, The Beastie Boys and Red Hot Chili Peppers, the overall slant of the other artists is so heavily tilted towards the voting body's predictable demographic tastes that it would be widely seen as scandalous if anyone outside a select few took this process seriously anymore. But anyone who truly wants to view the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame as a legitimate historical institution have had their hopes dashed year after year by the voting body's repeated transparent efforts to validate their own myopic tastes, something that reaches its nadir in 2012 with four of the seven inductees. Yet just when you're about to give up on the Hall ever taking their role in accurately charting rock history properly comes a ray of unexpected sunshine. It is one that has been long hoped for here but never seemed likely, and that is the long-overdue crediting of the bands and vocal groups who had the "misfortune" of being fronted by a star who, through misintpretation of somewhat faulty rules the Hall foolishly enacted from the start, were elected singularly while their officially credited groups were left out. Even with the advent of the Sideman category in 2000 no full backing instrumental band was inducted as a unit, though Elvis Presley's three sidemen all got in eventually. This year, in a startling move to correct this inexplicable error in judgment that was allowed to stain the Hall for over a quarter century, six vocal or instrumental groups will finally get their brief moment in the spotlight years after their frontmen were inducted without them. It's hard to praise the Hall for simply doing what should've been done from the start, but it's still a welcome sight. Though that much less publicized move offers hope that the Hall Of Fame is painfully aware of its shortcomings and will eventually stop dragging their feet and take steps to rectify past injustices and maybe even prevent similar embarrassing gaffes in the future, until its larger systematic failings are addressed the move is rather like applying a band-aid in an attempt to cover its more gaping self-inflicted credibility wounds. A major blood transfusion is still desperately needed in their nominating committee and voting ranks or the slow death of the institution will continue unabated, especially as each year the most focused upon category, the Main Performers, remains riddled with bullets fired by their own inherent cultural and musical biases. Here then is the latest autopsy for their credibility. MAIN PERFORMER ADDENDUMS From the start The Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame established rules regarding eligibility as well as official accreditation for its nominees and inductees that, true to form, it rarely followed consistently and frequently violated outright. How an artist's name was officially offered for nomination determined just who specifically got inducted and there was often little rhyme and no reasons for these choices. The end result was that too often a major star was allowed entry without being joined by the supporting cast for much of, if not all of, the work he was actually being honored for! At long last they've remedied this shameful chapter in their history brought about by their own bumbling with the naming of six prominent groups who saw their famous frontmen get inducted while they were snubbed. But even so, while they re being added to the official rolls of inductees, they're still not as prominently featured as this year's "new" Main Performer inductees since of course their visible headliners already made it long ago. Let the record show however that the following are now official Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Famers, whatever that's worth. THE BLUE CAPS Gene Vincent - 1998 A tremendous rockabilly band who backed Gene Vincent and featured one of the era's most electrifying guitarists in Cliff Gallup and tireless 15 year old drummer Dickie Harrell, who along with the other Blue Caps, Willie Williams or Paul Peek on rhythm guitar and Jack Neal slapping the bass, made their records seem like barely contained mayhem, if not downright anarchy at times. Considering Jeff Beck's worshipful devotion to Gallup it is downright shocking that he didn't get in as a sideman in his own right a few years back. But while the Blue Caps peak was short-lived, and the notoriously introverted Gallup in fact left after the first few sessions, where the bulk of their iconic work was done, the band in their heyday were among the best put together. THE COMETS Bill Haley - 1987 The first non-session oriented, prominent self-contained backing band credited by name on records in rock, The Comets helped establish and define the requirements for such units forevermore with their tight playing, democratic spirit and dazzling live shows. Haley was always very altruistic to them on record, giving each member spotlights, something that was expanded even further on stage, where they all would get solos and collectively the group's show stopping antics gave rock performances a very visual template to follow. Arguably no group was more vital to their leader's success in the 1950's than the Comets, and while they didn't much resemble a rock band, men in their 30's dressed in checkered dinner jackets, once they began playing there was never any questioning their credentials or authenticity. THE CRICKETS Buddy Holly - 1986 When Buddy Holly was elected alone in the first year of the Hall's existence it didn't raise too many eyebrows. For while he was the leader of the Crickets, which was the full credited name under which he scored his biggest hits, he also had records released under his own name alone for another subsidiary label due to a contractual quirk, even though the Crickets were present on those as well. It may have just seemed at the time to be a second unfortunate quirk of the system that denied them credit yet again. When the sidemen category was established fourteen years later it seemed all but certain that the Crickets would get in fairly soon, especially legendary drummer Jerry Allison. But more than a decade passed without any such honor and that original omission now seemed glaring and unnecessary. Consequently this is the longest any group had to wait for their rightful due, but it was a mandatory inclusion. The Crickets, with Holly on lead guitar, Allison on drums and Joe B. Mauldin on bass, sometimes adding Niki Sullivan or Sunny Curtis on second guitar, were the original power trio in rock, writing and recording with Holly throughout his meteoric two year career, the resulting music which endures to this day. THE FAMOUS FLAMES James Brown - 1986 Though for years people believed the Famous Flames were James Brown's backing band, those instrumental giants had no official credit on record and in fact had no recognized name until they were dubbed the J.B.'s in the 70's for lack of anything else to refer to them as. The Flames in fact were the vocal group name Brown joined in the mid-50's and with his presence making them Famous, they continued to use that moniker for a dozen years. They were led by Bobby Byrd, one of the most important side figures in a major star's career, and while they featured fluctuating membership over the years, the most prominent members included Johnny Terry, Bobby Bennett and Eugene "Baby Lloyd" Stallworth. The combination of the gospel-derived harmonies of the Flames and the intense leads of Brown made the group the undisputed leaders of the soul movement and the most explosive act in all of rock. THE MIDNIGHTERS Hank Ballard - 1990 The Midnighters actually began life as The Royals and without Hank Ballard as their frontman, scoring some decent records that way. When Ballard came aboard and sent them off in another direction a name changed followed when conflict ensued with the more popular and similarly named group from North Carolina, The "5" Royales. But no matter the name, the Midnighters were no mere anonymous backing singers and they featured one of the first the self-contained road bands working with a vocal group then, contributing some of the hottest guitar licks of their time. Since Ballard didn't even have his name out front on record until the late 50's, the fact he got in alone was a sore spot for years, but the others get to join him, even if it's past midnight for them. THE MIRACLES Smokey Robinson - 1987 Of all the oversights in 27 years of the Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame, none was more outrageous than the exclusion of the Miracles when Smokey Robinson alone got in during Year Two of the Hall's existence. Not even eligible as a solo performer yet by the Hall's own rules, Smokey was honored while the group he fronted, whose name his did not even appear separately from until 1967, were left out altogether. Considering Smokey was one of the most generous stars ever when it came to including the other members in his songwriting, so they'd get royalties rather than just performance pay, it had to rankle him that they didn't get to share this glory too. No more. The Miracles, it should go without saying, were the heartbeat of Motown in the 60's, one of the best vocal groups ever formed and owners of some of the greatest records rock has ever produced. With their induction the Hall has remedied its most shameful chapter and the biggest miracle is it took this long to do it. EARLY INFLUENCE FREDDIE KING (rewritten) Here we go again. In 2008 The Hall Of Fame showed its collective arrogance and utter lack of integrity by ushering Wanda Jackson into the Hall through a back door, as she appeared on the ballot that year as a Main Performer but failed to get elected, which is only fair since she didn't deserve to. The Hall's brain trust, if you can call it that, were determined not to let minor factors like rules and regulations stand in the way, probably in part because there was otherwise no females represented that year and they're quite sensitive to criticism for being sexist, since that's precisely what they are. So they overruled their own badly chosen electorate and put her in as an "Early Influence", despite not being either early in rock's evolution or influential. Now they've repeated that shameful blight with Freddie King, who similarly failed to make the cut this year as a Main Performer and so the Hall dragged his corpse through the alley to use the same back door they pried open for Jackson. Like her, Freddie wasn't early, he first recorded a full decade after rock existed, and while he became influential to other guitarists later on, the whole point of the Early Influence category was to properly credit those who predated rock entirely, or at the very least came along during its nascent pre-crossover days. King doesn't qualify at all in those regards. Of course, the REAL reason he likely got in this way was because, once again, the Hall of Fame voting rolls resemble that of 1956 Mississippi and blacks are completely disenfranchised. This marks the third year in the past ten that an all-white class has been elected to an institution that is founded on the music that black people invented, popularized and advanced more than anyone for sixty-four years! But in order to hide their white hoods and robes in the closet they shredded the Hall's own doctrines to ensure King, the only black artist from the ballot this year who could even remotely masquerade as an Early Influence to a largely unwitting public and uneducated rock media, would break the racial apartheid that exists within the Hall. Never mind actually purging the voting constituency of the indefensible white supremacist mindset that's been allowed to establish a stronghold for the last twenty years. Of course King's shady induction in this category only draws attention to the most glaring omissions from the Hall of Fame, which remain the REAL Early Influence candidates - all of whom are black - such as Roy Brown, Wynonie Harris, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, The Ravens, Amos Milburn and Big Jay McNeely, none of whom have gotten in despite building the entire damn foundation of rock music in the first place. McNeely is even still alive and blowing a mean tenor sax in his mid-80's and is as deserving as anyone still waiting, but then again if he were inducted the Hall would actually be forced to have a Negro on the stage in person and then who knows what riots would ensue? NON-PERFORMERS Glyn Johns The role of the producer as a vital entity in creating rock records was established in the 50's with Leiber & Stoller, but became seen as almost a universal requirement in the 60's when all of the major stars seemed to have an equally major name attached as producer. Johns fit that role for more acts than most of his contemporaries, overseeing hits for The Who, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Eagles, Steve Miller and Eric Clapton, along with this year's inductees The Faces. Yet unlike so many from that era, he never seemed to share much in the glory. Considering the Hall's ongoing love affair with both that era and the artists for whom he was most prominently associated with, its somewhat surprising it took them so long to induct him, though maybe the wait was so they could bring up those acts in the ceremonies yet again. Either way, it is well deserved and hopefully will open the door for even more deserving producers still waiting for enshrinement. RECAP (rewritten) No doubt people get tired of reading the same complaints each year about the Hall of Fame's dismal record centered around a lack of historical accuracy, troubling racial injustice and preferential treatment for the idols and bygone teen crushes of its voting members. Truthfully, it gets even more tiresome writing about it year after year. But if the Hall of Fame wants to be taken seriously, and by all accounts it does, then it needs to have its built-in systematic flaws and biases corrected once and for all and to have any hope of doing that they apparently need to be continually called out on their shortcomings. It's fully understood that nobody will ever agree with all selections, no matter the qualifications of those inductees, because properly crediting achievement runs counter to the subjective tastes of following music as a fan, but certain standards for an artist's credentials can always be objectively weighed and must be insisted upon, and certainly who is doing the selecting, what their agenda is, and the demographics of the voting body and the corresponding blind spots they're shown to have can all be easily remedied. Greater diversity in the voting rolls in terms of age, background, gender, race and point of origin... A revolving nominating committee to ensure differing perspectives in naming the candidates to the ballot each year... The expulsion, jailing and possible public execution of those responsible for the criminal manipulation of its own procedural guidelines. If these alterations were to be enacted would there still be complaints over who makes it in? Of course, but the methods for arriving at those selections would stand up to intense scrutiny, something which can not be said now and which causes the Hall to crumble in dishonor a little more each year. Ultimately a Hall Of Fame that treats induction as the ultimate award reserved only for the most deserving candidates is a much greater monument to the legacy of rock 'n' roll than anything tainted by rampant cronyism, ongoing voting irregularities, a lack of definable criteria, outright biases and widespread ineptitude. A Hall of Fame that doesn't insist upon the highest standards in its methods of operation can't ever expect to be afforded the respect it seeks from others. Until it strives to get to that point it will always face entirely justifiable criticism and unfortunately this year was no exception. In fact, this year may be the nadir of its institutionalized corruption.

Author:	ClashWho [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Sampson wrote: The combination of the gospel-derived harmonies of the Flames and the intense leads of brown made the group the undisputed leaders of the soul movement and the most explosive act in all of rock. Nuh, uh!

Author:	Taupin-Cetera [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Twitter Updates Slash says induction bittersweet because Rock and Roll Hall of Fame overlooked Rush, Deep Purple, Cheap Trick and Kiss http://t.co/28ZOuHeu about 3 hours ago Bill G. says the Rock Hall hasn't contacted the children of the late Marvin Tarplin from the Miracles either. http://t.co/Hhrqeyi9 about 8 hours ago Roger Friedman: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Won't Invite Laura Nyro's Son to Induction Ceremony http://t.co/uIHmHJ6w #RockHall2012 about 8 hours ago KISS Still Sore Over Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Exclusion \| Rolling Stone http://t.co/VmW3cpBG #RockHall2012 about 9 hours ago If Liam Gallagher does in fact induct Guns N' Roses, that is an inspired choice. Well done. #RockHall2012 about 10 hours ago !!! RT @GunsNRosesNews Kerrang are reporting that none other than Liam Gallagher has been asked to induct Guns N' Roses into the Rock Hall. about 10 hours ago

Author:	ClashWho [ Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
ClashWho wrote: Sampson wrote: The combination of the gospel-derived harmonies of the Flames and the intense leads of brown made the group the undisputed leaders of the soul movement and the most explosive act in all of rock. Nuh, uh! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT5uAIPFft8[/youtube] One of the kids says in the comments: "this is so amazing that its hard to believe its even real." Yeah, it's real. There really was a band like that. And they are the most explosive act in all of rock.

Author:	Taupin-Cetera [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
The possible candidates for giving The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction speech for Bernie Taupin when he is inducted: Elton John, Billy Joel, Rod Stewart, Ringo Starr, Alice Cooper, George Michael, Axl Rose, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Mary J. Blige, Sheryl Crow, Kid Rock The possible candidates for giving the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induction speech for Chicago: PREDECESSORS AND CONTEMPORARIES The Beach Boys, The Bee Gees, Earth, Wind & Fire, Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel FOLLOWERS Toto UB40 Sting America Huey Lewis Chris Isaak Dave Matthews Dave Grohl of Nirvana and Foo Fighters Taylor Hawkins of Foo Fighters Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20 Stephan Jenkins of Third Eye Blind Mark McGrath of Sugar Ray Steve Malkmus of Pavement Trey Anastasio of Phish Justin Vernon of Bon Iver

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Author:	Taupin-Cetera [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
The Official 2012 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony Twitter-Follow List http://t.co/D9efC6D1 #RockHall2012 about 10 hours ago

Author:	ClashWho [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Black representation of performer inductees 1986: 3/5ths 1987: 2/3rds 1988: 2/5ths 1989: 3/5ths 1990: 3/8ths 1991: 6/7ths (!) 1992: 5/7ths 1993: 1/2 1994: 1/8th 1995: 2/7ths 1996: 3/7ths 1997: 2/7ths 1998: 1/6th 1999: 2/7ths 2000: 1/3rd 2001: 3/8ths 2002: 1/6th 2003: 0/5ths 2004: 2/7ths 2005: 3/5ths 2006: 1/5th 2007: 2/5ths 2008: 0/5ths 2009: 3/5ths 2010: 1/5th 2011: 1/5th 2012: 1/4th Blacks are 12% of the population in the USA. They are 2% in the UK. Doesn't look like the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame can possibly be accused of racial bias, to me, unless it's bias that favors blacks. I didn't even count the Early Influence and Sideman inductions, which have leaned heavily black. Yes, Rock 'n' Roll started as black music, but it's been American music for nearly sixty years and British music for nearly fifty years. Yet blacks are at least twenty percent of the performer inductions every year except for five, and often a far greater percentage. Bellyaching that the Rock Hall doesn't induct enough blacks doesn't seem justified. Sure you can bitch that they're largely ignoring Disco and Hip-Hop, which are predominantly black, but they're also largely ignoring heavy metal and progressive rock, which are overwhelmingly white. I think you can criticize the Hall's decisions without implying that they're a bunch of racist white dudes.

Author:	pgm [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Preach.

Author:	Brian [ Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Percent of the population is the wrong standard to use. The right standard is what percent of the contribution to rock history is black, and that would be over 30%, and maybe closer to 40%. However, I wouldn't say they're racist either, I'd just say that they're biased against certain styles of rock, and those happen to include every predominantly black style of the last 35-40 years, and also some predominantly white styles. And also pre-1955 rock, which was almost entirely black.

Author:	ClashWho [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Brian wrote: Percent of the population is the wrong standard to use. The right standard is what percent of the contribution to rock history is black, and that would be over 30%, and maybe closer to 40%. Forty percent? I don't see it. Rock music has been the music of the masses for decades. Heck, generations. It's an American art form with notable British contributions. Whites have been the overwhelmingly dominant demographic of those nations over the course of rock music's reign. That holds true for listeners of rock music and performers of rock music. Black representation in the Rock Hall seems fine to me. It took eleven years for Black Sabbath to be inducted, so I'm not ready to bellyache about LL Cool J.

Author:	ClashWho [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Brian wrote: ClashWho wrote: That was a really good read, although I disagree with some of it. I'd love Sampson to do that sort of in-depth analysis of every induction year from the beginning. You might already know this, but he has done a similar write-up for every year from 2006 to the present. Thanks. The link for 2006 isn't working.

Author:	lew [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Clash - What link? Where? http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_halloffame_sc01.html

Author:	ClashWho [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Thanks, Lew! It's the link for 2006 on this page: http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_halloffame.html

Author:	lew [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
Thanks ClashWho. It's fixed now. If anyone finds a bad link on DDD, let me know

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Author:	Brian [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame: 1986-Present
ClashWho wrote: Brian wrote: Percent of the population is the wrong standard to use. The right standard is what percent of the contribution to rock history is black, and that would be over 30%, and maybe closer to 40%. Forty percent? I don't see it. Rock music has been the music of the masses for decades. Heck, generations. It's an American art form with notable British contributions. Whites have been the overwhelmingly dominant demographic of those nations over the course of rock music's reign. That holds true for listeners of rock music and performers of rock music. Black representation in the Rock Hall seems fine to me. It took eleven years for Black Sabbath to be inducted, so I'm not ready to bellyache about LL Cool J. I agree on listeners, but a lot of white people buy records by black artists. Looking at the songs that are hits year in and year out, black artists greatly overachieve in relation to their percent of the population.