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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
corrections wrote:
Half of the foundation of grunge (which is a foundation for much alternative music) is based on Black Sabbath.


I think that "Grunge" is 75% based on classic rock (mainly The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix and Black Sabbath).

I think also Neil Young with Crazy Horse.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:55 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Either music hits you or it doesn't. Most Hendrix records I've heard don't hit me as anything that I'd ever want to hear again. While his skill may have been tremendous, it just doesn't translate to music that I like AT ALL.


I can understand that criticism when it comes to the likes of Vai or Malmsteen, but Hendrix? Most of his stuff just plain rocks. Have you heard his renditions of "Hey, Joe" and "All Along the Watchtower"? Taste is subjective, of course, but that stuff seems like outstanding rock 'n' roll, to me.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Echoes wrote:
corrections wrote:
Half of the foundation of grunge (which is a foundation for much alternative music) is based on Black Sabbath.


I think that "Grunge" is 75% based on classic rock (mainly The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix and Black Sabbath).

I think also Neil Young with Crazy Horse.


Absolutely. "Godfather of Grunge" is an apt title for ol' Neil.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
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They certainly don't have the critical reception but I think they have more musical impact than the Everlys at the least. They are on par with Queen and Elton John. They are probably below Floyd and Holly.


On Rolling Stone's Immortals list, which was a poll with a relatively small sample size (50+), the Everly Brothers were #33, with Black Sabbath, Queen and Pink Floyd not in the top 100. Small sample size, yes, but that is quite a difference, and many of the respondents were musicians.


Those exclusions are what makes that list stupid. (Really no Black Sabbath? I am sure that Queen and Pink Floyd are not included, but I was not aware of Black Sabbath exclusion).


No, you're right, Black Sabbath did make it at #85.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
On "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" there are least six different meters in the first twenty-one bars.


Okay, but how influential is that?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
I know Bo Diddley music influenced the Rolling Stones, The Animals, The Yardbirds and the Kinks.


And The Who. Huge influence on The Who. The first song they ever played together was even a Bo Diddley song - "Road Runner".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Not many British bands recorded Holly's huge hits like "Peggy Sue" and "That'll Be The Day" and "Oh Boy" but tons of them did "Bo Diddley" and "Hey Bo Diddley" and "Who Do You Love" and "I'm A Man" and also lots of his lesser known things.


Yeah, even the Buddy Holly song they did cover a lot was the one most like a Bo Diddley song - "Not Fade Away".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
And no mention of the real first rock and roll record, "Good Rockin' Tonight" by Wynonie Harris.


Come on, that's hardly written in stone. Lots of debate on what qualifies as the first rock 'n' roll song. I've probably seen "Rocket 88" given that title more often than anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:53 pm 
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corrections wrote:
But even leaving that aside practically every metal artist takes some direct influence from Black Sabbath. And every metal artist takes important secondary influence. I can't think of another artist in any other large subgenre whose influence is so ubiquitous.


Neither can I.

Edit: James Brown in Funk and Bill Monroe in Bluegrass, eh? Yeah, those are contenders.


Last edited by ClashWho on Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:04 pm 
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corrections wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
What I was talking about when it comes to time signatures is in it’s application of rock and roll songs. The Beatles and Frank Zappa use of constant changing of meters. On "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" there are least six different meters in the first twenty-one bars. The songs you are talking about changes meters one or twice or it's in 12/8


Not too familiar with Miles Davis or John Coltrane are we? And why does rapid changing of meters make that big of a difference honestly? In classical music that had already been explored far more than the Beatles ever thought of exploring it. Gershwin thoroughly explored it too.


But he has explicitly stated that he's talking about it's application to rock music. He never said that the Beatles or Zappa invented the concept. Regardless, it's a minor point. The Beatles and Zappa weren't the first even in rock, and the only subgenre to be significantly impacted by the concept is progressive rock.


Last edited by ClashWho on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
I have never been an album listener. I never understood why anybody would want to listen to a bunch of songs in the order that some musician or producer decided that you should listen them to. I never bought into the whole thing
about songs on an album somehow being related to each other. Even on some of the most acclaimed albums of all time you have such unrelated songs on the same album as "Yellow Submarine" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" or "Helter Skelter" and "Honey Pie."

Essentially the public bought into that horseshit and just swallowed it up.


Come on, music has been listened to in big chunks for centuries. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, et al, weren't writing many 3 minute pieces. But, besides that, albums were better value for the money. The singles were still made available, but many fans wanted the albums and you seem to think they're all a bunch of suckers for that. What's difficult to understand about being a fan of an artist, even a singles artist like the Everly Brothers, and wanting more music from them at a better price?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:32 pm 
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corrections wrote:
I don't know what radio formats you've listened to but even on just normal "classic rock" stations I've heard Black Sabbath, the Wizard, NIB, War Pigs, Planet Caravan (although often the abysmal Pantera cover), Sweet Leaf, and Snowblind on almost as much as Iron Man and a few other songs scattered hear and there.


In my experience, when a Black Sabbath song is being played on classic rock radio, it's almost always going to be "Paranoid", "Iron Man" or "War Pigs". For a while I was hearing the Primus/Ozzy version of "NIB", too. I'm sure it varies across the country.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:38 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Right now, I think the first step in that direction is likely to be moving the Supremes and Elton John ahead of Holly.


Elton John ahead of Holly? That seems SO wrong, to me. I'd like to think Holly's advantages in Influence, Musical Impact and Cultural Impact make up for Elton John's enormous popularity gap. Same with Holly over the Supremes.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:33 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Either music hits you or it doesn't. Most Hendrix records I've heard don't hit me as anything that I'd ever want to hear again. While his skill may have been tremendous, it just doesn't translate to music that I like AT ALL.


I can understand that criticism when it comes to the likes of Vai or Malmsteen, but Hendrix? Most of his stuff just plain rocks. Have you heard his renditions of "Hey, Joe" and "All Along the Watchtower"? Taste is subjective, of course, but that stuff seems like outstanding rock 'n' roll, to me.


I guess we have different definitions of "rocks."

Nothing by hendrix comes close to "rocks" to my ears.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:38 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Bruce wrote:
I have never been an album listener. I never understood why anybody would want to listen to a bunch of songs in the order that some musician or producer decided that you should listen them to. I never bought into the whole thing
about songs on an album somehow being related to each other. Even on some of the most acclaimed albums of all time you have such unrelated songs on the same album as "Yellow Submarine" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" or "Helter Skelter" and "Honey Pie."

Essentially the public bought into that horseshit and just swallowed it up.


Come on, music has been listened to in big chunks for centuries. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner, et al, weren't writing many 3 minute pieces. But, besides that, albums were better value for the money. The singles were still made available, but many fans wanted the albums and you seem to think they're all a bunch of suckers for that. What's difficult to understand about being a fan of an artist, even a singles artist like the Everly Brothers, and wanting more music from them at a better price?


No problem, as long as they don't listen to the entire album in the order that it is served to them. Buy the album and pick out the songs that you like and put them on a tape or a disc.

As for music being listened to in chunks, rock and roll was never listened to that way in the 40s and 50s and ear;y 60s. It was always one song at a time, by different artists in an assortment, just like on the radio. Personally I don't often listen to songs by the same artist. Not even two in a row.


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