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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
Every time you see the likes of Britney Spears, Madonna, Iggy Pop, Prince, Mick Jagger, and so on, performing in an overtly sexual manner, that goes back to Elvis Presley. Not to the Beatles.



That is musical influence? You think that pop stars today act or perform in a sexual manner because they want to copy Elvis? Please get real. I could switch this everytime I see someone with long hair in rock and roll I could say it goes back to the Beatles.

Whether or not they are deliberately copying Elvis has no bearing on whether or not Elvis is credited with influence.


I am more impressed with direct influence. If you are going to there than the people who invented the instruments and the recording technology before rock and roll who made it big are then the biggest influences in rock and roll. It doesn't work that way.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:28 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
I could switch this everytime I see someone with long hair in rock and roll I could say it goes back to the Beatles.


Image


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:29 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
I am more impressed with direct influence.


Then go get your own website and make your own list.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:32 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
Pete Townshend implicitly made the distinction when he said 'The Beatles brought songwnting to rock 'n' roll'.


I have never seen that quote. Where is it from?

Musicfan67 wrote:
That's not to say that the legacy of Three-Chord Trick classics, from Chuck's 'Johnny B Goode to the Rolling Stones “Satisfaction” aren’t great songs. But the point is the Beatles that they were using a complete arsenal of resources. The Beatles dramatically broadened the potential of the pop song.


They're #2 on the influence list. How do you think they got there?


I strongly disagree with the Beatles being #2 on the influence list what can I say.

The Pete Townshend quote was from

The songwriting secrets of the Beatles By Dominic Pedler

Also here is an interesting interview with Pete Townshend where he mentions the Beatles a lot.

A Pete Townshend interview.
http://www.thewho.org/pete.htm

To your knowledge were you the first to use controlled feedback?
PT: To tell the truth, Dave Davies, Jeff (Beck) and me have got a tacit agreement that we will all squabble ‘til the day we die that we invented it. I think possibly the truth is that it was happening in a lot of places at once. As the level went up, as people started to use bigger amps, and we were all still using semi-acoustic instruments, it started to happen quite naturally. I think the development of it was the word was around the street and then Lennon used it at the beginning of that record I Feel Fine and then it became quite common and a lot of people started to use it.

How did you happen to choose a Rickenbacker?
PT: I liked the look of it, I think because The Beatles were using them. They picked theirs up in Germany, they were real German ones. I stayed with Rickenbackers for a long time and then I started to use Fenders. I never liked Gibsons at all - I still don’t very much (laughs). Then I started to get interested in a wide variety of guitars. I just tried anything that was around. I tried a Grimshaw for a while which is an English guitar. I tried a semi-acoustic Gibson ES335, I flitted around a lot and then Hendrix came along and I started to use Strats again. But that didn’t last long because the sound of them wasn’t quite right for what I wanted. And then Henry at Manny’s (music store in New York) introduced me to a guitar which had just come out. I don’t know what you call them; it was a thin crimson-coloured guitar…

Also on "You Can't Do That" as rock critic Lester Bangs not always kind to the Beatles by the way wrote years later), "built on one of the bitterest and most iron-indestructible riffs ever conceived". Lennon handled the lead guitar himself, hammering out a wiry solo which grew into a furious flurry of chords, totally unlike anything that George Harrison performed on the rest of the album


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:34 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
I could switch this everytime I see someone with long hair in rock and roll I could say it goes back to the Beatles.


Image



I love the lengths you go to dismiss the Beatles. Please that is not long hair and people in both America and the U.K freaked over the Beatles long hair. The long hair look influenced by the Beatles became the look of practically rock band.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:38 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
I am more impressed with direct influence. If you are going to there than the people who invented the instruments and the recording technology before rock and roll who made it big are then the biggest influences in rock and roll. It doesn't work that way.


Thomas Edison is the most important person in rock and roll history.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:39 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
I am more impressed with direct influence.


Then go get your own website and make your own list.


Then why have a list if you can't debate it. I see there was no problem with you and others voicing your opinion when the VH1 100 GREATEST ARTIST POLL came out. I see there was no problem debating or trying to dismiss Acclaimed Music lists. I also have a hard time believing that Elvis was the first to actually act on stage with a overt sexual manner also.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:40 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
Every time you see the likes of Britney Spears, Madonna, Iggy Pop, Prince, Mick Jagger, and so on, performing in an overtly sexual manner, that goes back to Elvis Presley. Not to the Beatles.
[/quote]

Please, Sophie Tucker was doing that 100 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:42 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
Also here is an interesting interview with Pete Townshend where he mentions the Beatles a lot.

A Pete Townshend interview.
http://www.thewho.org/pete.htm

To your knowledge were you the first to use controlled feedback?
PT: To tell the truth, Dave Davies, Jeff (Beck) and me have got a tacit agreement that we will all squabble ‘til the day we die that we invented it. I think possibly the truth is that it was happening in a lot of places at once. As the level went up, as people started to use bigger amps, and we were all still using semi-acoustic instruments, it started to happen quite naturally. I think the development of it was the word was around the street and then Lennon used it at the beginning of that record I Feel Fine and then it became quite common and a lot of people started to use it.

How did you happen to choose a Rickenbacker?
PT: I liked the look of it, I think because The Beatles were using them. They picked theirs up in Germany, they were real German ones. I stayed with Rickenbackers for a long time and then I started to use Fenders. I never liked Gibsons at all - I still don’t very much (laughs). Then I started to get interested in a wide variety of guitars. I just tried anything that was around. I tried a Grimshaw for a while which is an English guitar. I tried a semi-acoustic Gibson ES335, I flitted around a lot and then Hendrix came along and I started to use Strats again. But that didn’t last long because the sound of them wasn’t quite right for what I wanted. And then Henry at Manny’s (music store in New York) introduced me to a guitar which had just come out. I don’t know what you call them; it was a thin crimson-coloured guitar…

Also on "You Can't Do That" as rock critic Lester Bangs not always kind to the Beatles by the way wrote years later), "built on one of the bitterest and most iron-indestructible riffs ever conceived". Lennon handled the lead guitar himself, hammering out a wiry solo which grew into a furious flurry of chords, totally unlike anything that George Harrison performed on the rest of the album


I fail to see how any of this makes the Beatles more influential than Elvis Presley. Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:44 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
I also have a hard time believing that Elvis was the first to actually act on stage with a overt sexual manner also.


He was the first to have a major impact on popular music and popular culture with it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:45 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
I fail to see how any of this makes the Beatles more influential than Elvis Presley. Sorry.



Give us a few hit records from the past 20 years where you hear an Elvis influence.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
Every time you see the likes of Britney Spears, Madonna, Iggy Pop, Prince, Mick Jagger, and so on, performing in an overtly sexual manner, that goes back to Elvis Presley. Not to the Beatles.


Please, Sophie Tucker was doing that 100 years ago.


Not on television reaching an audience of tens of millions.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:49 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
I also have a hard time believing that Elvis was the first to actually act on stage with a overt sexual manner also.


He was the first to have a major impact on popular music and popular culture with it.


What you actually mean is the he was the first to have a major impact on "white" music and "white" culture with it. Lots of black artists were doing it and having an impact on black music and black culture with it. Wynonie Harris, Sonny Til, Howlin' Wolf with the soda bottle trick, etc...

Rock and roll didn't suddenly become important merely because the geeky white suburban kids finally discovered it with Elvis.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:44 am
Posts: 402
ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
Also here is an interesting interview with Pete Townshend where he mentions the Beatles a lot.

A Pete Townshend interview.
http://www.thewho.org/pete.htm

To your knowledge were you the first to use controlled feedback?
PT: To tell the truth, Dave Davies, Jeff (Beck) and me have got a tacit agreement that we will all squabble ‘til the day we die that we invented it. I think possibly the truth is that it was happening in a lot of places at once. As the level went up, as people started to use bigger amps, and we were all still using semi-acoustic instruments, it started to happen quite naturally. I think the development of it was the word was around the street and then Lennon used it at the beginning of that record I Feel Fine and then it became quite common and a lot of people started to use it.

How did you happen to choose a Rickenbacker?
PT: I liked the look of it, I think because The Beatles were using them. They picked theirs up in Germany, they were real German ones. I stayed with Rickenbackers for a long time and then I started to use Fenders. I never liked Gibsons at all - I still don’t very much (laughs). Then I started to get interested in a wide variety of guitars. I just tried anything that was around. I tried a Grimshaw for a while which is an English guitar. I tried a semi-acoustic Gibson ES335, I flitted around a lot and then Hendrix came along and I started to use Strats again. But that didn’t last long because the sound of them wasn’t quite right for what I wanted. And then Henry at Manny’s (music store in New York) introduced me to a guitar which had just come out. I don’t know what you call them; it was a thin crimson-coloured guitar…

Also on "You Can't Do That" as rock critic Lester Bangs not always kind to the Beatles by the way wrote years later), "built on one of the bitterest and most iron-indestructible riffs ever conceived". Lennon handled the lead guitar himself, hammering out a wiry solo which grew into a furious flurry of chords, totally unlike anything that George Harrison performed on the rest of the album


I fail to see how any of this makes the Beatles more influential than Elvis Presley. Sorry.


Of course you don't it's only a small piece of a large puzzle when it comes to the Beatles influence. The 12 string Rickenbocker was the instrument George Harrison influenced Roger McGuinn to use which became the sound of the Byrds and much of folk rock, power pop, and jangle pop. The Who and the Animals also used the instrument.

The Beatles use of intentional guitar feedback brief as it is on "I Feel Fine" became an important element not only to psychedelic rock but to the sound of hard rock and heavy metal. Pete is acknowledging the Beatles impact on both areas I guess as a Who fan as you claim to be respect it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:44 am
Posts: 402
Bruce wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
I also have a hard time believing that Elvis was the first to actually act on stage with a overt sexual manner also.


He was the first to have a major impact on popular music and popular culture with it.


What you actually mean is the he was the first to have a major impact on "white" music and "white" culture with it. Lots of black artists were doing it and having an impact on black music and black culture with it. Wynonie Harris, Sonny Til, Howlin' Wolf with the soda bottle trick, etc...

Rock and roll didn't suddenly become important merely because the geeky white suburban kids finally discovered it with Elvis.



You know what I know you don't agree with everything I have said especially when it came to Hank Williams rockabilly and that's cool with me. But I appreciate some of the information you are giving. It’s kind of giving me a new perspective on past popular music.


Last edited by Musicfan67 on Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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