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100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
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Author:  Bruce [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
J.B. Trance wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
I doubt it. It didn't even make the Hot 100. Does anyone think "Happy Birthday" is Stevie Wonder's greatest song? Did anyone here even know it existed until this discussion?


There's nothing to doubt about it.

It's not considered his greatest song, but it definitely is a classic of his. It was his prime musical vehicle push for in the creation of a national holiday for MLK, Jr. that then-Pres. Reagan, black histories, and trade magazines such as Billboard acknowledged.

Just because a song failed to make the Hot 100 does not mean that it isn't a popular song.



As I've already posted, the only reason it didn't make the top 100 in the USA is that it was not issued on a single here.
Author:  StuBass [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
The significance of Happy Birthday is that it represents the successful conclusion of the addition of a National Holiday...A BIG fucking deal (in Joe Bidens words) which Stevie was significant and instrumental in helping bring about. How many "National Holidays" have been added in the past 100 years? It impacts CULTURE, the economy, social progress, politics, and the entire fabric of American life. Cultural Impact in spades (no pun intended).
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Sampson wrote:
Wonder and The Beach Boys have over 60 hits apiece, the Who don't even have half that.


The Who have more than Bob Dylan. I'm just saying there's more to commercial impact than just the singles chart. I can see justification in ranking the Beach Boys and Stevie Wonder higher than The Who. I can also see justification in ranking The Who higher than Stevie Wonder and the Beach Boys. Like lots of people. It's just galling that you think The Who in the top ten is so outrageous. Or even the top fifteen! I mean, come on.
Author:  StuBass [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Brian Wilsons emotional issues started LONG before Pet Sounds.
Author:  Bruce [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
StuBass wrote:
The significance of Happy Birthday is that it represents the successful conclusion of the addition of a National Holiday...A BIG fucking deal (in Joe Bidens words) which Stevie was significant and instrumental in helping bring about. How many "National Holidays" have been added in the past 100 years? It impacts CULTURE, the economy, social progress, politics, and the entire fabric of American life. Cultural Impact in spades (no pun intended).


But nothing to do with music, so therefore it has no bearing on his ranking here IMO.
Author:  Nick [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
My perception is that people don't consider the Beach Boys a band so much as a vocal group. A band, to me, implies a group of rock musicians who fill the Drums-Bass-Guitar-Vocals template more or less. The Beach Boys are considered: Mike Love - vocals, Brian Wilson - vocals, Carl Wilson - vocals, Al Jardine -vocals etc. Dennis Wilson - drummer, Brian Wilson - bassist, Carl Wilson - guitarist. Not so much.

The Beatles, The Stones, The Who all fit the notion of a rock band much much better than The Beach Boys, so because people don't label The Beach Boys as contenders for the greatest ever rock band makes sense to me. The Beatles overlap into the vocal group bracket, but I don't see The Beach Boys as having a great deal in common with the Stones and the Who.
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Bruce wrote:
As I've already posted, the only reason it didn't make the top 100 in the USA is that it was not issued on a single here.


Supposedly it made the R&B chart. Is that based on its airplay only?
Author:  StuBass [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Bruce wrote:
StuBass wrote:
The significance of Happy Birthday is that it represents the successful conclusion of the addition of a National Holiday...A BIG fucking deal (in Joe Bidens words) which Stevie was significant and instrumental in helping bring about. How many "National Holidays" have been added in the past 100 years? It impacts CULTURE, the economy, social progress, politics, and the entire fabric of American life. Cultural Impact in spades (no pun intended).


But nothing to do with music, so therefore it has no bearing on his ranking here IMO.


If that's the case then "cultural impact" should be eliminated as a criteria since it's his standing in music which impacted the "culture". It's like saying that Steven Speilbergs film making has nothing to do with impacting culture...even moreso in Stevies case.
Author:  Bruce [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
ClashWho wrote:
Bruce wrote:
As I've already posted, the only reason it didn't make the top 100 in the USA is that it was not issued on a single here.


Supposedly it made the R&B chart. Is that based on its airplay only?



It didn't make the R&B chart through 1988. It may have made it in a later re-release. I think they isued it on a 12" single at some point. I have a 45 on it from some other country. It was never on a 45 here.
Author:  StuBass [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
:arrow:
Nick-ola wrote:
My perception is that people don't consider the Beach Boys a band so much as a vocal group. A band, to me, implies a group of rock musicians who fill the Drums-Bass-Guitar-Vocals template more or less. The Beach Boys are considered: Mike Love - vocals, Brian Wilson - vocals, Carl Wilson - vocals, Al Jardine -vocals etc. Dennis Wilson - drummer, Brian Wilson - bassist, Carl Wilson - guitarist. Not so much.

The Beatles, The Stones, The Who all fit the notion of a rock band much much better than The Beach Boys, so because people don't label The Beach Boys as contenders for the greatest ever rock band makes sense to me. The Beatles overlap into the vocal group bracket, but I don't see The Beach Boys as having a great deal in common with the Stones and the Who.


Hi Nick...Of course The Beach Boys were/are a band. Like many (if not most) top recording groups (including The Beatles, The Stones, etc), they use additional musicians and singers on their tracks.
Author:  Negative Creep [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
ClashWho wrote:
and then Brian Wilson had a nervous breakdown trying to top Sgt. Pepper's and never really recovered.


:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Nick-ola wrote:
My perception is that people don't consider the Beach Boys a band so much as a vocal group. A band, to me, implies a group of rock musicians who fill the Drums-Bass-Guitar-Vocals template more or less. The Beach Boys are considered: Mike Love - vocals, Brian Wilson - vocals, Carl Wilson - vocals, Al Jardine -vocals etc. Dennis Wilson - drummer, Brian Wilson - bassist, Carl Wilson - guitarist. Not so much.

The Beatles, The Stones, The Who all fit the notion of a rock band much much better than The Beach Boys, so because people don't label The Beach Boys as contenders for the greatest ever rock band makes sense to me. The Beatles overlap into the vocal group bracket, but I don't see The Beach Boys as having a great deal in common with the Stones and the Who.


That might be part of it, although I think most people actually do think of the Beach Boys as a band. Beach Boys clips on TV always show them playing their instruments. Most people don't know that it's the Wrecking Crew playing the instruments on Pet Sounds and such.

It might have more to do with the Beach Boys popularity dropping off a cliff in the immediate aftermath of the career highs of "Good Vibrations" and Pet Sounds in 1966. It always stuns me to contemplate how massive they were and how quickly and dramatically their fortunes reversed. I adore their post-1966 material. I own everything from Pet Sounds to Love You.

It also might have something to do with the Beach Boys being more associated with a "lighter" rock sound than the Rolling Stones and The Who. Some might consider them more pop than rock, and that's why "World's Greatest Rock Band" is perceived not to suit them.
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Negative Creep wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
and then Brian Wilson had a nervous breakdown trying to top Sgt. Pepper's and never really recovered.


:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


I'm talking about the public's perception, neg.
Author:  Negative Creep [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Than the "public" is pretty ignorant, if that's the case...
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
StuBass wrote:
If that's the case then "cultural impact" should be eliminated as a criteria since it's his standing in music which impacted the "culture". It's like saying that Steven Speilbergs film making has nothing to do with impacting culture...even moreso in Stevies case.


Not at all. Elvis Presley's music and performances affected the culture on their own. The Beatles music and performances affected the culture on their own. Steven Speilberg's films affected the culture on their own. Their cultural impact is not because they used their fame to help them lobby a politician to aid a cause. Their cultural impact just happened as a side-effect of their careers as artists and performers. Stevie Wonder's music and performances did not affect the culture on their own in the sense that they resulted in King's birthday being made a national holiday. It took Stevie Wonder using his fame to lobby a politician. To me, that's different. Does anyone really think Bono's humanitarian work makes U2 a greater rock band? Because that would be the same thing.
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