It's not just selling a lot of singles (or albums).

It's that the general public is much more familiar with artists that have big hits. In those days everybody got their music from the radio. There was no internet, MP3s. no walkmans, no cassettes tapes even. No MTV. The hit records were heard everywhere.

Another part of that review of the Who concert at Forest Hills said that many of the people in the crowd would not even have heard of the Who if not for a certain Pinball Wizard. In other words, before the Tommy album the Who were not a major act in the USA. Before "Pinball Wizard" they had opnly had one top 20 single and before "Tommy" they had not had a big hit mainstream album either here. They were not a major act here until the second half of 1969.

The category is called Commercial Impact. Not Fame.



So?

Yes. And?

black artists don't do well in live venues because the country's lingering racial unease in social situations. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Promoters and venues don't want rap in their buildings because of the fear of overwhelmingly black audiences and a perception of violence (that itself is LONG outdated and was never that legitimate to begin with, even at the peak of the gangsta rap era). If the venues were moved to the suburbs to attract a larger white audience (who faithfully buy the records and love the music) it still doesn't work because parents won't let their kids go for those same reasons having to do with racial fear.

So having big hit singles that get played on radio and in other venues billions of times over the years is commercial impact. The amounts of money that these big hit standards like "Where Did Our Love Go" and "You Can't Hurry Love" generate over the years is staggering. It's not just about people buying the single for 89 cents in 1966.

Hy Weiss (owner of Old Town Records) told me that he made about 400K just because "We Belong Together" was used in the "La Bamba" movie. And that was just on the initial run of the movie.

Not to mention that far fewer inner city black kids could ever come up with the kind of money that it costs to go see a major start act live.

One black artist - Tina Turner, near the bottom, who since the mid-80's has attracted virtually an entirely white audience. Now look again at those acts, singling out the rock artists, and ask yourself if any of them have had any real MUSICAL impact on the decade just finished. How many have? Maybe five and even they didn't have a whole helluva lot on it. Why is that? Because selling tickets in great volume is an entirely different thing than what you're suggesting.

So again, what I always try and preach is CONTEXT. That means more than any criteria because it allows you to see WHY things happen, not just tabulate sheer numbers. The truth is, concerts are for a select few that fit a couple of specific archtypes. If you fit into one of those archtypes and are popular WITHIN that base then you'll do well. If not, it doesn't matter how much more popular your actual music is than all of those artists combined even, you have no prayer of cracking the list. If people don't understand the social aspects of this then there's no hope in ever making a legitimate list as long as people are simply throwing around tour numbers to make their case.

Brian has said he uses 80/20 split for US/UK. That should also take into account that certain American labels and styles didn't have full distribution or promotional efforts in the UK until the late 60's.

But the kind of thing you're describing is not just based on hits. And it isn't described in the criteria that Brian just posted, either. Take something like "The Seeker". It peaked at #44 in the USA. But it's been used in everything from the 250th episode of The Simpsons, to The Limey, to American Beauty, to Grand Theft Auto IV, to Guitar Hero 3. That's massive commercial impact. And it didn't even hit the freaking top forty! And that's not even getting to stuff like "Baba O'Riley" that wasn't even released as a single. The movies, trailers, commercials and television episodes that thing has appeared in are legion.

I contest the notion that success on the charts is superior to success on the road, and you give me a whole 'nother set of parameters that is entirely apart from the charts. Do you realize that you just changed the subject?

In terms of concerts not all artistic styles are created equal. A vocal harmony group, no matter how popular, won't fill stadiums because their music doesn't translate well to the venue.