DDD Forum
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/

100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=259		 Page 28 of 457
Author:  The Man [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
So you would have The Beatles at #1, where would you have Elvis? He can't conceivably be any lower than #2.

I agree with you about The Beatles / Dylan changing the popular view, but without Elvis there wouldn't be a popular view to be changed.
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
The Man wrote:
So you would have The Beatles at #1, where would you have Elvis? He can't conceivably be any lower than #2.

I agree with you about The Beatles / Dylan changing the popular view, but without Elvis there wouldn't be a popular view to be changed.


There wouldn't be rock music and roll without Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, who were on the charts before Elvis. Elvis is not top five in other polls. Elvis helped popularized rock and roll furhter but there is more to than that in being an artist. Like I said the Beatles in terms of lyricial, songwriting, recording, eclecticism musical, albums the Beatles were not only were better than Elvis easily but the Beatles influence in those areas are stlill evident.
Author:  ClashWho [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Musicfan67 wrote:
If you think the Beatles had an influence on the rock album you are sadly mistaken.


:siren:
Author:  ClashWho [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Musicfan67 wrote:
There wouldn't be rock music and roll without Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, who were on the charts before Elvis. Elvis is not top five in other polls.


Our list is not a poll. :evil:
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
If you think the Beatles had an influence on the rock album you are sadly mistaken.


:siren:



You know what I meant if you think the Beatles only had an influence on the rock album you are sadly mistaken. But I will correct that point.
Author:  ClashWho [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Musicfan67 wrote:
Like I said the Beatles in terms of lyricial, songwriting, recording, eclecticism musical, albums the Beatles were not only were better than Elvis easily but the Beatles influence in those areas are stlill evident.


This list has absolutely nothing to do with who is "better".
Author:  The Man [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
MF, those things you just named aren't part of the criteria for this list. Remember, we're going by popularity, influence, musical impact, and cultural impact because those are things which are objective. It is very difficult to judge the quality of lyrics and songwriting without retaining some sort of subjectivity. In terms of the four criteria we are using for this list, The Beatles and Elvis are unquestionably the number one and two.

Dylan vs Elvis

Popularity - Elvis
Influence - Elvis
Musical Impact - Dylan (? this one is very close)
Cultural Impact - Elvis
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
Like I said the Beatles in terms of lyricial, songwriting, recording, eclecticism musical, albums the Beatles were not only were better than Elvis easily but the Beatles influence in those areas are stlill evident.


This list has absolutely nothing to do with who is "better".


Ok better is subjective. It's being objective that Elvis didn't write his songs or his lyrics. Only an idiot would say that Elvis had more influence on rock music in terms of songwriting, lyrical, recording and as a album as an art form. As for musical eclecticism please lets stop it's really embarrasing to compare primarily a vocalist be it a great vocalist who sings many styles than a band of musicians who basically ran the gambit of writing styles and are considered by many the greatest rock/pop songwriters, recording and playing musical styles.
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
The Man wrote:
MF, those things you just named aren't part of the criteria for this list. Remember, we're going by popularity, influence, musical impact, and cultural impact because those are things which are objective. It is very difficult to judge the quality of lyrics and songwriting without retaining some sort of subjectivity. In terms of the four criteria we are using for this list, The Beatles and Elvis are unquestionably the number one and two.

Dylan vs Elvis

Popularity - Elvis
Influence - Elvis
Musical Impact - Dylan (? this one is very close)
Cultural Impact - Elvis


Popularity- Elvis
Influence- Dylan
Musical Impact- Dylan
Cultural Impact- Elvis

I have to say I never understood the cultural impact thing it's not musical. Madonna is a cultural icon is she a great musician?
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
There wouldn't be rock music and roll without Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, who were on the charts before Elvis. Elvis is not top five in other polls.


Our list is not a poll. :evil:



Which makes this list a subjective poll. Anyone with an agenda can make some criteria or promote a musician to their liking.
Author:  The Man [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Musicfan67 wrote:
The Man wrote:
MF, those things you just named aren't part of the criteria for this list. Remember, we're going by popularity, influence, musical impact, and cultural impact because those are things which are objective. It is very difficult to judge the quality of lyrics and songwriting without retaining some sort of subjectivity. In terms of the four criteria we are using for this list, The Beatles and Elvis are unquestionably the number one and two.

Dylan vs Elvis

Popularity - Elvis
Influence - Elvis
Musical Impact - Dylan (? this one is very close)
Cultural Impact - Elvis


Popularity- Elvis
Influence- Dylan
Musical Impact- Dylan
Cultural Impact- Elvis

I have to say I never understood the cultural impact thing it's not musical. Madonna is a cultural icon is she a great musician?


Is she a great musician? I don't think so. Is she a great artist? Yes. "Musical artist" and "Musician" are not necessarily synonymous.

I don't see how Dylan can possibly take influence over Elvis. Elvis is the most influential rock artist there is.
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
The Man wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
The Man wrote:
MF, those things you just named aren't part of the criteria for this list. Remember, we're going by popularity, influence, musical impact, and cultural impact because those are things which are objective. It is very difficult to judge the quality of lyrics and songwriting without retaining some sort of subjectivity. In terms of the four criteria we are using for this list, The Beatles and Elvis are unquestionably the number one and two.

Dylan vs Elvis

Popularity - Elvis
Influence - Elvis
Musical Impact - Dylan (? this one is very close)
Cultural Impact - Elvis


Popularity- Elvis
Influence- Dylan
Musical Impact- Dylan
Cultural Impact- Elvis

I have to say I never understood the cultural impact thing it's not musical. Madonna is a cultural icon is she a great musician?


Is she a great musician? I don't think so. Is she a great artist? Yes. "Musical artist" and "Musician" are not necessarily synonymous.

I don't see how Dylan can possibly take influence over Elvis. Elvis is the most influential rock artist there is.


Elvis more influential than the Beatles please. Based on the recording techniques the Beatles helped either start of establish or what they did for songwriting or the album form you would be hard pressed not find the Beatles influence in any pop/rock song or album. If anything the Beatles influence on Modern Pop is stronger than it is in Modern Rock. If first was most important than Bill Haley would be the most influential artist because he had the first number one rock and roll song. Madonna a great artist? No a great entertainer.

There comes a point where A doesn't apply to B anymore. What does "Eleanor Rigby" have to with 50's rock and roll it's basically a hybrid style of classical music. What does "Tomorrow Never Knows" have to with Buddy Holly? What is it drum & bass song or a modern electronic song that has many of the same elements that you would hear in any of today's pop music. "Love You To" or 'Within You Without You" World Pop? Is "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "I Am the Walrus" 50's rock and roll or even rock or just let's call it avant-pop. Is "Helter Skelter" noise rock or proto metal? I could call songs like "Blue Jay Way", "Only a Northern Song" as pure psychedelic. I mean in the book "Revolution in the Head" the author described "Baby You're A Rich Man" as acid funk.

Let's go to 1963 "She Loves You" has chord progressions from folk/skiffle, 50's rock and from big band music. Not really 50's rock and roll either. What about the unorhtodox chord progessions on "It Won't Be Long". Again what do we call "Because" synth Bach influenced/choral vocal harmonies. Elvis again a huge influence in the 50's but by the time the British Invasion were recording their music their were more influenced by Motown and blues music than Elvis. Prog Rock/Folk Rock/Psychedelic/Heavy Metal/Funk/Motown/ World Music influences etc.. the increased usage of studio resources and experimentation, songwriting, stadium rock has jack nothing to do with Elvis. I know you think I am being harsh but there is reasons why All Music Guide or the recent VH1 Poll have the Beatles first a list based on a music artist poll. The majority don't agree with you.

01 The Beatles
02 Michael Jackson
03 Bob Dylan
04 Led Zeppelin
05 Rolling Stones
06 Jimi Hendrix
07 Prince
08 Elvis Presley
09 James Brown
10 Stevie Wonder
Author:  The Man [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Musicfan67 wrote:

Elvis more influential than the Beatles please. Based on the recording techniques the Beatles helped either start of establish or what they did for songwriting or the album form you would be hard pressed not find the Beatles influence in any pop/rock song or album. If anything the Beatles influence on Modern Pop is stronger than it is in Modern Rock. If first was most important than Bill Haley would be the most influential artist because he had the first number one rock and roll song. Madonna a great artist? No a great entertainer.



I don't think that first necessarily means most important. But in the influence category, it almost has to be. By the criteria of this list, Madonna is a great artist.

Quote:
There comes a point where A doesn't apply to B anymore. What does "Eleanor Rigby" have to with 50's rock and roll it's basically a hybrid style of classical music. What does "Tomorrow Never Knows" have to with Buddy Holly? What is it drum & bass song or a modern electronic song that has many of the same elements that you would hear in any of today's pop music. "Love You To" or 'Within You Without You" World Pop? Is "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "I Am the Walrus" 50's rock and roll or even rock or just let's call it avant-pop. Is "Helter Skelter" noise rock or proto metal? I could call songs like "Blue Jay Way", "Only a Northern Song" as pure psychedelic. I mean in the book "Revolution in the Head" the author described "Baby You're A Rich Man" as acid funk.


These are all examples of musical impact, not influence. We are trying to categorize these into specific subgenres, we're looking at rock music as a whole. And as a whole, the influence that Elvis Presley has had is greater than that of The Beatles (I am not trouncing The Beatles's enormous influence. I am only re-stating what has already been determined in the "Most Influential Artists" thread.)

Quote:
Let's go to 1963 "She Loves You" has chord progressions from folk/skiffle, 50's rock and from big band music. Not really 50's rock and roll either. What about the unorhtodox chord progessions on "It Won't Be Long". Again what do we call "Because" synth Bach influenced/choral vocal harmonies. Elvis again a huge influence in the 50's but by the time the British Invasion were recording their music their were more influenced by Motown and blues music than Elvis. Prog Rock/Folk Rock/Psychedelic/Heavy Metal/Funk/Motown/ World Music influences etc.. the increased usage of studio resources and experimentation, songwriting, stadium rock has jack nothing to do with Elvis.


Again, you are discussing musical impact, not influence. I agree that The Beatles have a greater musical impact. Remember, I agree that The Beatles are the number one rock artist. It's your placement of Dylan that I am disputing, not The Beatles.

Quote:
I know you think I am being harsh but there is reasons why All Music Guide or the recent VH1 Poll have the Beatles first a list based on a music artist poll. The majority don't agree with you.

01 The Beatles
02 Michael Jackson
03 Bob Dylan
04 Led Zeppelin
05 Rolling Stones
06 Jimi Hendrix
07 Prince
08 Elvis Presley
09 James Brown
10 Stevie Wonder


I don't think you're being harsh at all. The belief of the majority, however, means nothing. If you are going with what the majority believes, then Justin Bieber is the greatest artist of all time, if you would excuse the generalization. You know that this list is just silly. Led Zeppelin cannot conceivably be above The Rolling Stones. Michael Jackson at number two is just outright silly. When was this poll conducted? If it was in the past year or so we can assume that his undeserved high placement is a result of his untimely death.
Author:  Machine Head [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
The VH1 greatest artists list is a joke, both the 1998 version and the 2010 version. In the 1998 version, The Police were #10 and MJ was #35. in the 2010 one, the police were like #70 and MJ was #2. These are just four mistakes among several. I mean, in the 2010 list COLDPLAY was #67.
Author:  Musicfan67 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Machine Head wrote:
The VH1 greatest artists list is a joke, both the 1998 version and the 2010 version. In the 1998 version, The Police were #10 and MJ was #35. in the 2010 one, the police were like #70 and MJ was #2. These are just four mistakes among several. I mean, in the 2010 list COLDPLAY was #67.


Well here is another one.

Rolling Stone List of the 100 greatest artists of all time.

1. The Beatles
2. Bob Dylan
3. Elvis Presley
4. Rolling Stones
5. Chuck Berry
6. Jimi Hendrix
7. James Brown
8. Little Richard
9. Aretha Franklin
10. Ray Charles
Page 28 of 457 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/