DDD Forum
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/

100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=259		 Page 275 of 457
Author:  Bruce [ Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Brian wrote:
I My view is that the MLK holiday is pretty big, at least when compared to the cultural impact that most rock artists have (not much), because it affects every American at least in a small way. When it's MLK day, there are no mail deliveries, and things such as banks, libraries, and schools are closed. .


On May 2, 2000, South Carolina governor Jim Hodges signed a bill to make Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday an official state holiday. South Carolina was the last state to recognize the day as a paid holiday for all state employees. Prior to this, employees could choose between celebrating Martin Luther King Day or one of three Confederate holidays.
Author:  Bruce [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Bill Haley Story

http://www.texasmonthly.com/cms/printth ... 2011-06-01
Author:  Sampson [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
ClashWho wrote:
Brian wrote:
I think that Clash was saying that he disagreed with the way that the cultural impact criterion is defined. My concern is, given the criterion as it is, how much cultural impact does he have? I think that to give less credit to Stevie because the cultural impact didn't come directly from his music is to change the criteria. My view is that the MLK holiday is pretty big, at least when compared to the cultural impact that most rock artists have (not much), because it affects every American at least in a small way. When it's MLK day, there are no mail deliveries, and things such as banks, libraries, and schools are closed. Many Americans get the day off as well. So Stevie played an important role in bringing about a change in the lives of a large number of people.


Yeah, that's why I don't like it. I agree with Bruce's analogy of Ronald Reagan being launched up a Greatest Actors list because he was the 40th President of the United States. MLK Day seems just as irrelevant to a rock artists list, to me. I think the kind of cultural impact that should matter for this list is the sort that comes about as a direct result of a rock artist's work as a rock artist. Not as a lobbyist. Chubby Checker popularizing the twist? Now that's the sort of cultural impact this list should take into account.


That's not a relevant analogy at all, as I've pointed out before. Reagan's acting and political career are two seperate entities, as are Jim Bunning's baseball and political career, or Bill Bradley with basketball and politics. Sonny Bono's later job as a Congressmen wouldn't help at all in Cultural Impact here, but had he spurred Nixon into ending the Vietnam War because of a song he wrote and crusading every week on the Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour, then THAT would absolutely factor in.

Sista Soulja gets big cultural impact for her role in the racial discussion during the 1992 Presidental Campaign, and yet it wasn't a single song of hers that did that, just her overall comments AS an artist that allowed her to enter into the national dialogue. The Beatles long hair and Lennon's "Bigger than Jesus" comments weren't rooted in a song, but their stature as artists. It's the same as what Wonder did, from having King's pciture in the collage on Fullfillingness First Finale album to the "Happy Birthday" track on Hotter Than July to his tireless effortsfor years to bring attention to the cause were all done AS an artist. That can't be separated and frankly it's far more difficult to effect change in the way he did than with such incidental (though still important) residual impact such as with Aretha Franklin or Bob Dylan or pick a name that does pretty well here. He actually SET OUT to do something and succeeded against lots of opposition. It's a big deal.

Now if Stevie gets elected President in the future that would NOT factor in, because he'd be taking on a different career.
Author:  Bruce [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Sampson wrote:

That's not a relevant analogy at all, as I've pointed out before. Reagan's acting and political career are two seperate entities, ]/quote]

If you believe that I have a few bridges to sell you.

Sampson wrote:
Now if Stevie gets elected President in the future that would NOT factor in, because he'd be taking on a different career.


According to you if his campaign kicks off with an album (Make me the President) then it's part of the same career.

As far as I'm concerned the MLK Holiday is a huge negative. We have enough fucking holidays already around that time of the year. We should get rid of that one, and get rid of the President's Day (Washington and Lincoln Birthday) bullshit too.

Stevie takes a cut in my ranking of him for wasting time with that MLK holiday when he instead could have been making a good record.
Author:  Bruce [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Aretha Franklin and/or Don Covay ripped off this gospel record from early 1967:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdcLUN8K998[/youtube]
Author:  Brian [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Bruce wrote:
Sampson wrote:

That's not a relevant analogy at all, as I've pointed out before. Reagan's acting and political career are two seperate entities, ]/quote]

If you believe that I have a few bridges to sell you.

Sampson wrote:
Now if Stevie gets elected President in the future that would NOT factor in, because he'd be taking on a different career.


According to you if his campaign kicks off with an album (Make me the President) then it's part of the same career.

As far as I'm concerned the MLK Holiday is a huge negative. We have enough fucking holidays already around that time of the year. We should get rid of that one, and get rid of the President's Day (Washington and Lincoln Birthday) bullshit too.

Stevie takes a cut in my ranking of him for wasting time with that MLK holiday when he instead could have been making a good record.


But cultural impact is about how much an artist affected culture, not about opinions about whether or not the affect was a good one. That would be like if someone said that The Beatles should be penalized for influencing men to grow their hair longer, because long hair looks bad on men.
Author:  Bruce [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Brian wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Sampson wrote:

That's not a relevant analogy at all, as I've pointed out before. Reagan's acting and political career are two seperate entities, ]/quote]

If you believe that I have a few bridges to sell you.

Sampson wrote:
Now if Stevie gets elected President in the future that would NOT factor in, because he'd be taking on a different career.


According to you if his campaign kicks off with an album (Make me the President) then it's part of the same career.

As far as I'm concerned the MLK Holiday is a huge negative. We have enough fucking holidays already around that time of the year. We should get rid of that one, and get rid of the President's Day (Washington and Lincoln Birthday) bullshit too.

Stevie takes a cut in my ranking of him for wasting time with that MLK holiday when he instead could have been making a good record.


But cultural impact is about how much an artist affected culture, not about opinions about whether or not the affect was a good one. That would be like if someone said that The Beatles should be penalized for influencing men to grow their hair longer, because long hair looks bad on men.


So if some Metal Band puts out a song with subliminal messages that get thousands of kids to commit suicide, do we give them positive credit towards cultural impact?

Long hair has nothing to do with music, and after 1966 when the Beatles stopped touring, they were not even being seen in public by any fans. It should not have any bearing on their ranking here IMO.
Author:  Sampson [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Bruce, everything you write should come with the disclaimer "IMO", since that seems to be your primary reasons for everything. Personally I don't agree with a lot of your chosen criteria but if it's being used on your lists I have to respect it when it's being discussed and credit it properly. In MY opinion you place way too much importance on "longevity" for recording groups, as if staying together a long time and appearing at state fairs and third rate casinos with no original members somehow equates to greatness. I think you did it in part to elevate the Drifters, who you love, far higher than they deserve on many of your lists, but if that's your criteria then it's gotta be adhered to, regardless of what I think. The same holds true for all lists and all criteria.

As for your not wanting vacation days, how about eliminating weekends too? I'm sure that'll go over big. I'd be sure to give full credit to you of course, because you'd deserve it (not because you'd then be mauled to death by the overwhelming majority of Americans... that'd just be a bonus). :lol:
Author:  Bruce [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Sampson wrote:
As for your not wanting vacation days, how about eliminating weekends too? I'm sure that'll go over big. I'd be sure to give full credit to you of course, because you'd deserve it (not because you'd then be mauled to death by the overwhelming majority of Americans... that'd just be a bonus). :lol:


The majority of Americans were (and are still) against having a holiday for MLK. Some states still combine it as a day to also celebrate Robert E. Lee's birthday.

MOST retail businesses are open on that day. Some schools in NJ are open that day. Depends upon the district.
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Sampson wrote:
Now if Stevie gets elected President in the future that would NOT factor in, because he'd be taking on a different career.


What if as part of his presidential campaign he releases a single touting his candidacy and puts himself sitting at the desk in the Oval Office as his album cover?
Author:  Negative Creep [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
:lol:
Author:  Brian [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Bruce wrote:
Brian wrote:
Bruce wrote:
As far as I'm concerned the MLK Holiday is a huge negative. We have enough fucking holidays already around that time of the year. We should get rid of that one, and get rid of the President's Day (Washington and Lincoln Birthday) bullshit too.

Stevie takes a cut in my ranking of him for wasting time with that MLK holiday when he instead could have been making a good record.


But cultural impact is about how much an artist affected culture, not about opinions about whether or not the affect was a good one. That would be like if someone said that The Beatles should be penalized for influencing men to grow their hair longer, because long hair looks bad on men.


So if some Metal Band puts out a song with subliminal messages that get thousands of kids to commit suicide, do we give them positive credit towards cultural impact?

Long hair has nothing to do with music, and after 1966 when the Beatles stopped touring, they were not even being seen in public by any fans. It should not have any bearing on their ranking here IMO.


I think such a band would get credit, but that's different in that almost everyone would agree that increasing the teen suicide rate is a bad thing, while the question of whether the MLK holiday is good is very debatable. Also, the suicide thing has never happened, and I don't think criteria and list parameters should be based on highly unlikely hypotheticals.

Re: the Beatles, my point was about whether an artist should be penalized for an impact that the editor judges to be negative, not whether the impact should be considered at all. Also, just because The Beatles stopped touring in 1966 doesn't mean that people no longer knew what they looked like. For one thing, their albums included pictures.
Author:  Bruce [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Brian wrote:
Also, just because The Beatles stopped touring in 1966 doesn't mean that people no longer knew what they looked like. For one thing, their albums included pictures.


Yes.

Image
Author:  Brian [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Some albums (some singles also) had pictures on the cover. For that album, you had to look inside.
Author:  ClashWho [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
Image

:surprised:
Page 275 of 457 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/