DDD Forum :: View topic - Rank The Hall Of Famers

NON-INDUCTEES (votes)
Tiny Bradshaw (3)
Joe Liggins (3)
Big Jay McNeely (3)
Roy Milton (3)
Sister Rosetta Tharpe (3)
Dixie Hummingbirds (2)
Julia Lee (2)

On my Hall Of Fame pages you can use anyone with a 7 or above as somebody I think is deserving of induction if you don't want to wait around for me to cast a ballot.

As for who got in, Crudup and the Mills Brothers would never get my votes.

(The numbers are for their qualification scores on the HOF pages)

Johnny Ace (8)
Jesse Belvin (7)
Jerry Butler (7)
Clovers (8)
Five Royales (7)
Huey "Piano" Smith (as a sideman, absolutely; with the Clowns he'd get a 6. So I'll vote for him, but with that as asterisk)
Joe Tex (7)
Billy Ward and the Dominoes (8)
Larry Williams (6 - but since Gene Vincent and Carl Perkins are in with equal qualifications as Larry, I'd vote for him)

So you dont see Carole King as a hall of fame artist?

I like the Mills Brothers and know their work, but I probably calculate the Early Influence candidates qualifications for the Hall differently than you. For that category in my eyes it's not their overall achievements that matter, but their direct influence on the birth of rock itself. The further back from rock's conception (1947/48) you get, the less their influence is directly felt, even though with them the vocal group course began. I understand people seeing things differently, but I'm much more concerned with giving the birth of rock groups like the Ravens credit and feel it's a much closer connection than someone doing things 15 years earlier.

SIDE QUESTION:
Since the "5" Royales are among those up for this vote, I'm trying to definitively peg down when their album Dedicated To You was released. Most sources say 1957, but this site http://www.bsnpubs.com/king/02king500/02king500.html that actually has all of the King Records LP's by release date has it squarely in 1958. The numbers of the records surrounding it would seem to verify that, but I figured if anyone would know for sure it might be you.

Sampson wrote:

That's reasonable, so I assume that you would not induct Louis Armstrong, Robert Johnson, Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith, etc ?

Sampson wrote:

I've got it as 1958, but I don't have 100% proof of that.

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
The first round of "Early Influences" is closed. There were 5 voters so a candidate needed 4 votes to be inducted. Here are the results: INDUCTEES (votes) Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup (5) Wynonie Harris (5) Mills Brothers (5) Roy Brown (4) Amos Milburn (4) Lucky Millinder (4) Charley Patton (4) Ravens (4) NON-INDUCTEES (votes) Tiny Bradshaw (3) Joe Liggins (3) Big Jay McNeely (3) Roy Milton (3) Sister Rosetta Tharpe (3) Dixie Hummingbirds (2) Julia Lee (2)

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
INDUCTEES SO FAR EARLY INFLUENCES: Roy Brown Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup Wynonie Harris Amos Milburn Lucky Millinder Mills Brothers Charley Patton Ravens Moving on to the next era, artists who made their first record in the 1950s. To be eligible for this category the artist has to have released his first record between 1950 and 1959 . Each voter is just going to vote YES or NO on each candidate. In order to be inducted the candidate has to get 2/3 of the vote. You can vote for all 15 candidates if you want to. THIS ROUND WILL CLOSE ON SUNDAY FEB 10 at 10 PM EASTERN: Here are the candidates: Johnny Ace Jesse Belvin Johnny Burnette Trio Jerry Butler Chubby Checker Clovers Five Royales Carole King Cliff Richard Jack Scott Huey "Piano" Smith Joe Tex Billy Ward and the Dominoes Larry Williams Sonny Boy Williamson (Rice Miller)

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
MY VOTES: Johnny Ace Jerry Butler Chubby Checker Clovers Five Royales Carole King Cliff Richard Huey "Piano" Smith Joe Tex Billy Ward and the Dominoes Sonny Boy Williamson (Rice Miller)

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Bruce wrote: NON-INDUCTEES (votes) Tiny Bradshaw (3) Joe Liggins (3) Big Jay McNeely (3) Roy Milton (3) Sister Rosetta Tharpe (3) Dixie Hummingbirds (2) Julia Lee (2) I'm guessing if Sampson had voted that we would have had several more inductees. I'm sure he would have voted for Liggins, McNeely, Milton and Tharpe, and possibly for Bradshaw. With 6 voters, a candidate stilll would have needed 4 votes to get in.

Author:	Sampson [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
On my Hall Of Fame pages you can use anyone with a 7 or above as somebody I think is deserving of induction if you don't want to wait around for me to cast a ballot. For the Early Influences Tharpe and McNeely both got a nine, the Dixie Hummingbirds, Bradshaw, Lee and Liggins got eights, though the last two were borderline 7/8, not that it matters. As for who got in, Crudup and the Mills Brothers would never get my votes. General observation - people give way too much credit to blues acts and not enough to gospel.

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Author:	Sampson [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
(The numbers are for their qualification scores on the HOF pages) Johnny Ace (8) Jesse Belvin (7) Jerry Butler (7) Clovers (8) Five Royales (7) Huey "Piano" Smith (as a sideman, absolutely; with the Clowns he'd get a 6. So I'll vote for him, but with that as asterisk) Joe Tex (7) Billy Ward and the Dominoes (8) Larry Williams (6 - but since Gene Vincent and Carl Perkins are in with equal qualifications as Larry, I'd vote for him)

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Sampson wrote: On my Hall Of Fame pages you can use anyone with a 7 or above as somebody I think is deserving of induction if you don't want to wait around for me to cast a ballot. Thanks, but each round is up for a full week, so there's plenty of time to vote. We'd love for you to participate, but you've got to actually do so for us to count your votes.

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Sampson wrote: As for who got in, Crudup and the Mills Brothers would never get my votes. Are you familiar with the Mills Brothers 1930s material?

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Sampson wrote: (The numbers are for their qualification scores on the HOF pages) Johnny Ace (8) Jesse Belvin (7) Jerry Butler (7) Clovers (8) Five Royales (7) Huey "Piano" Smith (as a sideman, absolutely; with the Clowns he'd get a 6. So I'll vote for him, but with that as asterisk) Joe Tex (7) Billy Ward and the Dominoes (8) Larry Williams (6 - but since Gene Vincent and Carl Perkins are in with equal qualifications as Larry, I'd vote for him) Thanks, your votes have been tabulated. No Chubby Checker, huh? I guess we should not be surprised, even though his subjective accomplishments are staggering. So you dont see Carole King as a hall of fame artist?

Author:	Sampson [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
I like the Mills Brothers and know their work, but I probably calculate the Early Influence candidates qualifications for the Hall differently than you. For that category in my eyes it's not their overall achievements that matter, but their direct influence on the birth of rock itself. The further back from rock's conception (1947/48) you get, the less their influence is directly felt, even though with them the vocal group course began. I understand people seeing things differently, but I'm much more concerned with giving the birth of rock groups like the Ravens credit and feel it's a much closer connection than someone doing things 15 years earlier.

Author:	Sampson [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Bruce wrote: So you dont see Carole King as a hall of fame artist? No. Carole King is in already for her writing, which is where her greatest accomplishments are found. She had one staggering album "Tapestry" and some other good things, but I don't consider those quite enough. I'd give her a 6 strictly as an artist, and since a few of the songs she cut on those albums were songs she wrote for others who had the definitive versions, that kind of points again to where she's most deserving of credit. SIDE QUESTION: Since the "5" Royales are among those up for this vote, I'm trying to definitively peg down when their album Dedicated To You was released. Most sources say 1957, but this site http://www.bsnpubs.com/king/02king500/02king500.html that actually has all of the King Records LP's by release date has it squarely in 1958. The numbers of the records surrounding it would seem to verify that, but I figured if anyone would know for sure it might be you.

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Sampson wrote: I like the Mills Brothers and know their work, but I probably calculate the Early Influence candidates qualifications for the Hall differently than you. For that category in my eyes it's not their overall achievements that matter, but their direct influence on the birth of rock itself. The further back from rock's conception (1947/48) you get, the less their influence is directly felt, even though with them the vocal group course began. I understand people seeing things differently, but I'm much more concerned with giving the birth of rock groups like the Ravens credit and feel it's a much closer connection than someone doing things 15 years earlier. That's reasonable, so I assume that you would not induct Louis Armstrong, Robert Johnson, Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith, etc ?

Author:	Bruce [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Sampson wrote: SIDE QUESTION: Since the "5" Royales are among those up for this vote, I'm trying to definitively peg down when their album Dedicated To You was released. Most sources say 1957, but this site http://www.bsnpubs.com/king/02king500/02king500.html that actually has all of the King Records LP's by release date has it squarely in 1958. The numbers of the records surrounding it would seem to verify that, but I figured if anyone would know for sure it might be you. I've got it as 1958, but I don't have 100% proof of that.

Author:	Sampson [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Bruce wrote: Sampson wrote: I like the Mills Brothers and know their work, but I probably calculate the Early Influence candidates qualifications for the Hall differently than you. For that category in my eyes it's not their overall achievements that matter, but their direct influence on the birth of rock itself. The further back from rock's conception (1947/48) you get, the less their influence is directly felt, even though with them the vocal group course began. I understand people seeing things differently, but I'm much more concerned with giving the birth of rock groups like the Ravens credit and feel it's a much closer connection than someone doing things 15 years earlier. That's reasonable, so I assume that you would not induct Louis Armstrong, Robert Johnson, Ma Rainey, Bessie Smith, etc ? No, I wouldn't. I thought the deification of Robert Johnson as the father of rock was the single worst thing to happen to the accurate portrayal of Rock History, it skewed everything to a 60's guitar-centric ground zero starting point, which is exactly the WRONG way to trace anything. You find the beginning and move forward, not randomly pick a point from the middle and go backwards. That being said, I love Robert Johnson and definitely see how his work DID get picked up on by rockers down the road in the 60's, but it had NOTHING to do with rock's birth. He was all but unknown to those creating rock 'n' roll in the late 40's and his music hadn't been heard widely enough in the 30's to have been influencial even in passing. At least the Mills Brothers were known and their innovations had clearly influenced groups that came along between their arrival and rock's birth.

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Author:	Sampson [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers
Bruce wrote: Sampson wrote: SIDE QUESTION: Since the "5" Royales are among those up for this vote, I'm trying to definitively peg down when their album Dedicated To You was released. Most sources say 1957, but this site http://www.bsnpubs.com/king/02king500/02king500.html that actually has all of the King Records LP's by release date has it squarely in 1958. The numbers of the records surrounding it would seem to verify that, but I figured if anyone would know for sure it might be you. I've got it as 1958, but I don't have 100% proof of that. Thanks, that's what I'm going with unless definitively proven otherwise.