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| Author: | diane [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Brett Alan wrote: Rock doesn't have to be uptempo. There are lots of records which are slower than the typical reggae record which everyone agrees are rock. There are lots of artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists. If you want to make a convincing argument that reggae isn't rock, you have to show me something that parts of the definition of rock which reggae lacks. Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. I have to say, I don't like taxonomy arguments, because the whole nature of music is to *flow* anywhere it wants to, and to resist or defy classification. But to answer your question about what reggae lacks that is part of the definition of rock? You can't dance to it. Well, maybe *you* can, but in the 60s when I fell in love with "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker & The Aces, and ran out and bought the 45, all I could do was pat my foot to it. Could not figure out how to dance to it. No American kids could. |
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| Author: | diane [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Bruce wrote: No, no, no...... [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_i9GG5wXI[/youtube] |
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| Author: | diane [ Fri May 18, 2012 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Bruce wrote: dianeemuller wrote: She surely deserved induction more than those two people with the initials P.S. did! Should we take Paul Simon out? LOL!!!! God forbid!!!! That's what I get for trying to be clever.  I meant Patti Smith and Percy Sledge. |
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| Author: | diane [ Fri May 18, 2012 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
01 Carl Perkins 02 Paul Simon 03 The Doors 04 Pink Floyd 05 Cream 06 The Drifters 07 The Kinks 08 The Byrds 09 Fleetwood Mac 10 Elton John I find myself now voting for people who sold a shitload of records but (from my point of view) diluted and pop-ified the music to the point where it has no relationship to the rock & roll music that swept me away in my childhood. Also, I'm not voting for many of my *favorite* artists (Muddy Waters, Hank Williams, Joe Turner, Clyde McPhatter, Hank Ballard, etc.), either because they are IMO clearly *not* rock or R&R artists, or because they didn't have enough commercial success or "influentialness" to put them in before people like Fleetwood Mac or Elton John. So IOW this isn't going to be much fun for me anymore, plus I can't really be objective about artists I actively dislike. Once we got to Madonna and Prince I knew it was time for me to get off the bus. Thanks for driving it and inviting me on. |
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| Author: | Sampson [ Fri May 18, 2012 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
dianeemuller wrote: Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot. |
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| Author: | Bruce [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Sampson wrote: dianeemuller wrote: Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot. They had plenty of uptempo records. Listen to the wild sax break on "Getting Tired, Tired Tired." [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZJ5br1a7y0[/youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoUqO37d ... 94DEFE8423 "Happy Go Lucky Local Blues" is a rocker too, don;t see it on youtube though. |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Quote: the whole nature of music is to *flow* anywhere it wants to, and to resist or defy classification. I agree there 100%. Well-put. |
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| Author: | diane [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Bruce wrote: Sampson wrote: dianeemuller wrote: Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot. They had plenty of uptempo records. Listen to the wild sax break on "Getting Tired, Tired Tired." "Happy Go Lucky Local Blues" is a rocker too, don;t see it on youtube though. I immediately thought of this one: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6haf6jywLp0[/youtube] |
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| Author: | Bruce [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
dianeemuller wrote: Bruce wrote: Sampson wrote: dianeemuller wrote: Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot. They had plenty of uptempo records. Listen to the wild sax break on "Getting Tired, Tired Tired." "Happy Go Lucky Local Blues" is a rocker too, don;t see it on youtube though. I immediately thought of this one: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6haf6jywLp0[/youtube] That's the best thing they ever did IMO, but it's an unissued track from 1955. Sounds more like the Clovers than the Orioles. I guess Sampson only knows 15-20 Orioles songs if he thinks the "never" did anything fast. They released about 50 singles (100 songs) on Jubilee alone, not to mention later stuff and unissued things. |
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| Author: | McMurphy [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
1.Muddy Waters 2.U2 3.Pink Floyd 4.Elton John 5.The Supremes 6.Queen 7.David Bowie 8.The Clash 9.Sly & The Family Stone 10.Bill Haley & The Comets |
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| Author: | diane [ Fri May 18, 2012 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Sampson wrote: dianeemuller wrote: Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot. And I think of them more as *transitional* artists between 40s R&B and 50s R&R. Really have more in common with groups like the Ink Spots, Charioteers, or Four Vagabonds than they do with, say, Hank Ballard & The Midnighters. But still, a big influence on many R&B and soul artists to follow....and Sonny Til was a sex symbol long before Elvis came along. Maybe he was the first "rock star"....pretty sure women weren't throwing their underwear at Bill Kenny! Other "transitional" artists, but these are unjustly ignored by the HOF, include Wynonie Harris, Roy Brown, Roy Milton, and Amos Milburn in R&B, and Moon Mullican in country. |
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| Author: | ClashWho [ Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Bruce wrote: Can you show me ANYPLACE other than this site where SOMEONE says that reggae is a subgenre of rock? http://rockhall.com/inductees/bob-marley/bio/ |
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| Author: | Brett Alan [ Sat May 19, 2012 12:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
ClashWho wrote: Bruce wrote: Can you show me ANYPLACE other than this site where SOMEONE says that reggae is a subgenre of rock? http://rockhall.com/inductees/bob-marley/bio/ Yeah, that's a good start. I mean--I don't know how many people go around listing the subgenres of rock, or defining what is and isn't included, in so many words. But everyone who makes a list of the greatest artists or albums or whatever in rock seems to include Bob Marley, and often other reggae artists. That's true whether it's the Hall of Fame, or Rolling Stone, or even DDD. I've never noticed anyone questioning Marley's place on any of our rock lists. Again, everything that defines rock is included in Marley's records. |
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| Author: | Brett Alan [ Sat May 19, 2012 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
dianeemuller wrote: Brett Alan wrote: Rock doesn't have to be uptempo. There are lots of records which are slower than the typical reggae record which everyone agrees are rock. There are lots of artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists. If you want to make a convincing argument that reggae isn't rock, you have to show me something that parts of the definition of rock which reggae lacks. Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N. When did Traffic play anything at a really fast tempo? Or the Grateful Dead? I'm not saying everything those bands played were slow ballads, but I don't think their relatively uptempo stuff was any faster than Marley's relatively uptempo stuff. I suspect there are other prog and jam-band artists who are in the same boat. I've heard indie-rock bands over the years who kept the tempo down, too. dianeemuller wrote: I have to say, I don't like taxonomy arguments, because the whole nature of music is to *flow* anywhere it wants to, and to resist or defy classification. But to answer your question about what reggae lacks that is part of the definition of rock? You can't dance to it. Well, maybe *you* can, but in the 60s when I fell in love with "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker & The Aces, and ran out and bought the 45, all I could do was pat my foot to it. Could not figure out how to dance to it. No American kids could. Well, "The Israelites" doesn't strike me as a danceable record, that's true. But that doesn't mean it's typical of reggae. Lots of Marley's stuff is very danceable, and on his later albums he started to embrace disco as an influence ("Buffalo Soldier", "Exodus"). And more contemporary reggae is very dance-oriented. |
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| Author: | Bruce [ Sat May 19, 2012 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rank The Hall Of Famers |
Brett Alan wrote: But everyone who makes a list of the greatest artists or albums or whatever in rock seems to include Bob Marley, and often other reggae artists. There's no Marley on this list: In issue 35 of Classic Rock Magazine (December 2001), a list was published of the 100 greatest rock albums of all time, according to its writers and editors. The rules: no live albums, no compilations and no more than two albums per artists. Here are the results. Enjoy! http://rateyourmusic.com/lists/list_vie ... 25&start=0 No Marley on this list: # Top 100: Best Rock Albums of All-Time 1. Dark Side of the Moon Pink Floyd [1973] >> 2. Led Zeppelin IV Led Zeppelin [1971] >> 3. Cosmo's Factory Creedence Clearwater Revival [1970] >> 4. Led Zeppelin II Led Zeppelin [1969] >> 5. Abbey Road The Beatles [1969] >> 6. The Beatles (White Album) The Beatles [1968] >> 7. Machine Head Deep Purple [1972] >> 8. Electric Ladyland Jimi Hendrix [1968] 9. Cheap Thrills Big Brother and the Holding Company [1968] 10. Shazam The Move [1970] 11. Please Please Me The Beatles [1963] >> 12. Green River Creedence Clearwater Revival [1969] >> 13. The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars David Bowie [1972] 14. Willy and the Poor Boys Creedence Clearwater Revival [1969] 15. Smash Hits Tom Jones [1967] 16. 1990 The Temptations [1973] 17. Led Zeppelin III Led Zeppelin [1970] 18. Band on the Run Paul McCartney [1973] 19. Lucifer's Friend Lucifer's Friend [1970] 20. Dusty in Memphis Dusty Springfield [1968] 21. We're Only in It for the Money Frank Zappa [1968] 22. Harvest Neil Young [1972] 23. Don't Be Fooled by the Name Geordie [1974] 24. Young and Rich The Tubes [1976] 25. What's Goin' on Marvin Gaye [1971] 26. Days of Future Passed The Moody Blues [1967] 27. Live (at Edmonton) Procol Harum [1972] 28. Northern Lights — Southern Cross The Band [1975] 29. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band The Beatles [1967] >> 30. Love Rustler Delbert McClinton [1977] >> 31. Moondance Van Morrison [1970] 32. Wish You Were Here Pink Floyd [1975] 33. Vol. 4 Black Sabbath [1972] 34. Beggar's Banquet The Rolling Stones [1968] 35. Janis Ian Janis Ian [1967] 36. Stand Up Jethro Tull [1969] 37. Shine on Brightly Procol Harum [1968] 38. Piledriver Status Quo [1972] 39. Desire Bob Dylan [1976] 40. Fireball Deep Purple [1971] 41. Rick Danko Rick Danko [1977] 42. Meddle Pink Floyd [1971] 43. Aqualung Jethro Tull [1971] 44. The Second Damnation The Damnation of Adam Blessing [1970] 45. Grand Hotel Procol Harum [1973] 46. Nebraska Bruce Springsteen [1982] 47. Short Stories Harry Chapin [1974] 48. Abraxas Santana [1970] 49. Everything Must Go Manic Street Preachers [1996] 50. Naturally J.J. Cale [1972] 51. Who's Next The Who [1971] 52. Hotel California The Eagles [1976] 53. Physical Graffiti Led Zeppelin [1975] 54. Bayou Country Creedence Clearwater Revival [1969] 55. Good Old Boys Randy Newman [1974] 56. Slayed? Slade [1972] 57. Blonde on Blonde Bob Dylan [1966] 58. Born in the U.S.A. Bruce Springsteen [1984] 59. Forever Changes Love [1967] 60.Led Zeppelin I Led Zeppelin [1969] 62. Born to Run Bruce Springsteen [1975] 62. Planet Waves Bob Dylan [1974] 63. Innervisions Stevie Wonder [1973] 64. Revolver The Beatles [1966] 65. Exile on Main Street The Rolling Stones [1972] 66. Highway 61 Revisited Bob Dylan [1965] 67. Excerpts from the Belafonte Carnegie Hall Concert Harry Belafonte [1959] 68. Auberge Chris Rea [1991] 69. Breakfast in America Supertramp [1979] 70. The Doors The Doors [1967] 71. Creedence Clearwater Revival Creedence Clearwater Revival [1968] 72. The Velvet Underground The Velvet Underground & Nico [1967] 73. Blue Lines Massive Attack [1991] 74. The River Bruce Springsteen [1980] 75. Solar Fire Manfred Mann's Earth Band [1973] 76. Disraeli Gears Cream [1967] 77. Pet Sounds The Beach Boys [1966] 78. Stranger in the City John Miles [1976] 79. In Rock Deep Purple [1970] 80. The Unforgettable Fire U2 [1984] 81. I Believe Mahalia Jackson [1955] 82. Boulders Roy Wood [1973] 83. Fly Like an Eagle Steve Miller Band [1976] 84. Mystery Girl Roy Orbison [1989] 85. Bob Till You Drop Ry Cooder [1979] 86. Astral Weeks Van Morrison [1968] 87. Between the Lines Janis Ian [1975] 88. Billion Dollar Babies Alice Cooper [1973] 89. John Fogerty John Fogerty [1975] 90. Sticky Fingers The Rolling Stones [1971] 91. Razamanaz Nazareth [1973] 92. Straight Shooter Bad Company [1975] 93. Yeah! Brownsville Station [1973] 94. 461 Ocean Bouleward Eric Clapton [1974] 95. Rumours Fleetwood Mac [1977] 96. Blue Ridge Rangers Blue Ridge Rangers [John Fogerty] [1973] 97. Thriller Michael Jackson [1982] 98. Brothers in Arms Dire Straits [1985] 99. Demons and Wizards Uriah Heep [1972] 100. The Slider T.Rex [1972] No Marley on this list of the top 61 Rock artists of all time: http://rockmusiclists.wetpaint.com/page ... f+All-Time |
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