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The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
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Author:  pauldrach [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Actually my last suggestion was this:

21. Rush
22. The Stooges
23. Red Hot Chili Peppers
24. The Clash
25. Rage Against the Machine

If anything The Clash are already too low at #24. No way they get beaten by RAtM or Soundgarden.

EDIT: Why do I keep editing posts that I only want to quote? Forgive me.
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
pauldrach wrote:
pauldrach wrote:
New suggestion:

21. Rush
22. The Stooges
23. Red Hot Chili Peppers
24. Rage Against the Machine
25. Soundgarden

With Boston, Def Leppard and Bon Jovi as very strong contenders for the next bunch.

And The Clash are probably greater for hard rock at least than RAtM. Even newer suggestion:

21. Rush
22. The Stooges
23. Red Hot Chili Peppers
24. The Clash
25. Rage Against the Machine


Pauldrach,

Please indulge me, and give a listen to Burn posted above and seen by many as a Prog Metal masterpiece ... and is often on the set list of many a Prog Metal band or has been re - recorded ...... Take care
Author:  Negative Creep [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Quote:
Actually I may have. As I see it Boston take popularity. RAtM take both impact/acclaim and influence. But since Boston's advantage in popularity is bigger than RAtM's in the two other criteria I could still see Boston ahead of RAtM. I don't really care in which order they are as long as they are rather close to each other on the list.


I'd say Rage's influence and acclaim is significantly greater than Boston's.
Boston's huge success comes mostly from one album. Not that it wasn't a killer, but Rage have a much more acclaimed catalogue. It was largely their debut album that sparked the whole rap/metal revolution of the 90's. I think many bands were directly copying Rage more than The Chili Peppers or FNM.

Quote:
As gminer pointed out Purple introduced more complex musical structures to hard rock (otherwise usually very simple music). Thus they are indeed an early influence on all other progressive hard rock styles, even though they were not directly involved in the emergence of prog-metal.


As for complex musical structures in hard rock, that comes mostly from the original lineup of the band, and I dont know if I'd call Mark 1 hard rock overall. Hush and Kentucky Woman were the biggest hits from that period, and I'd say only the latter is hard rock, barely at best.

Quote:
Van Halen's sound was indeed different from those bands but other bands had mixed pop and hard rock before them.


Of course, that goes all the way back to the mid-60's for crying out loud. But VH seemingly came out of nowhere with a whole new sound. Even the production on that first album was brilliant and legendary.
I wouldnt necessarily credit them as "innovators" either, as glam metal definitely was around before them. BUT, they took it to another level that produced TONS of copycats throughout the 80's.

Quote:
Deep Purple were more important than them in terms of inspiring other artists but as I see it that is part of the acclaim/impact criterion and I think we all agree that Purple take that.


If they do, it isn't by much. And I wouldnt say Purple were more important in terms of inspiring other bands. If anything I'd call it even, both bands had tremendous influence on different stylistic elements of hard rock.
VH's debut is one of the most legendary hard rock albums ever. I'd say it's easily on par with Machine Head for greatness.

And Eddie Van Halen made shredding marketable and commonplace. Blackmore was doing it first, but Eddie made a much bigger splash doing it.

Quote:
Your definition of hard rock seems to be even more liberal than Clash's. But then again you wrote: "Any kind of guitar-driven, aggressive rock music with hard-edged riffs and more emphasis on volume than melody."

"Break On Through (To the Other Side)", "Five to One", "Roadhouse Blues" and maybe "The Changeling" fit that definition.
[/quote][/quote]

I'm a Doors fanboy. I guess you're right. A lot of their songs are borderline, but I guess they dont have the quantity of hard rock tunes to place them as high as I'd like to.

Gminer,
Of COURSE I've heard "Burn"! It's my 4th favorite Purple album (after In Rock, self-titled, Taliesyn, and Made In Japan). But I'm not exactly sure how it's progressive. There's classical influences in the soloing for sure, but I dont hear many multi-part compositions, unqiue varying song structures, etc. Especially not in the Mark III lineup.
Author:  pauldrach [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
gminer wrote:
Pauldrach,

Please indulge me, and give a listen to Burn posted above and seen by many as a Prog Metal masterpiece ... and is often on the set list of many a Prog Metal band or has been re - recorded ...... Take care

Fascinatingly I was able to open that youtube link and did listen to it. I have to admit that it's not exactly my cup of tea but I do think that it's significantly more progressive than most hard rock of the era. It has a rather complex harmonic scheme in some parts and there's heavy use of syncopation.
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Negative Creep wrote:
Quote:
Gminer,
Of COURSE I've heard "Burn"! It's my 4th favorite Purple album (after In Rock, self-titled, Taliesyn, and Made In Japan). But I'm not exactly sure how it's progressive. There's classical influences in the soloing for sure, but I dont hear many multi-part compositions, unqiue varying song structures, etc. Especially not in the Mark III lineup.


My friend, I am referring to the Prog Metal song Burn not the album of the same name, .... and as you and I know Burn the album is mostly R&B flavoured with a little funk thrown in here and there ... Take care

You will note on the VH influence and innovation you are drawing the conversation towards EVH solely, which is the point of the conversation ...
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
pauldrach wrote:
gminer wrote:
Pauldrach,

Please indulge me, and give a listen to Burn posted above and seen by many as a Prog Metal masterpiece ... and is often on the set list of many a Prog Metal band or has been re - recorded ...... Take care

Fascinatingly I was able to open that youtube link and did listen to it. I have to admit that it's not exactly my cup of tea but I do think that it's significantly more progressive than most hard rock of the era. It has a rather complex harmonic scheme in some parts and there's heavy use of syncopation.


Thank you, that is a fair evaluation of this tune from 1974 ... Take care
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Negative Creep wrote:
As for complex musical structures in hard rock, that comes mostly from the original lineup of the band, and I dont know if I'd call Mark 1 hard rock overall. Hush and Kentucky Woman were the biggest hits from that period, and I'd say only the latter is hard rock, barely at best.


I would not call MKI hard rock overall either in studio recorded material just like I would not call the other bands of the same timeline hard rock either as it relates to their recorded material ... but in the live format of that time, MKI were as close to a hard rock band as any of that era and do what becomes that defining phrase shortly after ... Take care

Mandrake Root as an example with a riff lifted from Lost Soul by Lord Sutch not Hendrix as many think .... and to the point of the hard rock discussion starting at 2:20 the musicianship / style of Blackmore, Lord and Paice into the closing of the tune .... you know the music of this era my friend, so you would know why I point to that last 4 minutes of the tune as just one example ..... Take care

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WZoBFtqtf0[/youtube]
Author:  Negative Creep [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
gminer wrote:
My friend, I am referring to the Prog Metal song Burn not the album of the same name, .... and as you and I know Burn the album is mostly R&B flavoured with a little funk thrown in here and there ... Take care


Okay I gotcha.
I know it's r&b flavored, but how does that make it progressive? Most of it has hard rock (title track), blues elements (What's Goin On Here, Mistreated), and funk (You Fool No One), or just typical rock tunes (Sail Away, Might Just Take Your Life).
I'm still not seeing the progressive nature of the song Burn, though. Maybe it's just me.

I still wouldnt consider Mark 1 Purple to really be a hard rock band, there was way too many psychedelic/blues elements involved (Chasing Shadows, The Shield, One More Rainy Day, Help, Anthem, Blind, Lalena, April, etc....and that's about 80% of mark 1's catalogue right there).
I'd say if anything, Mark 1 paved the way for lighter prog bands like Yes.

So I guess you'd have to say that Child In Time was the real starting point as far as "influencing prog metal", imo. And that was written at about the same time as "Black Sabbath", which also introduced a whole new style of structural complexity within hard rock.
Also, "War Pigs" was a huge influence on prog metal, and pre-dates "Fools" by at least six months or so.

gminer wrote:
You will note on the VH influence and innovation you are drawing the conversation towards EVH solely, which is the point of the conversation ...


Not necessarily, I mentioned the production of the album, the accessibility of the songs, and the whole sound of VH in general. There was nobody else in hard rock who sounded like them. There were similar bands to Purple, like Uriah Heep and even early Zeppelin, but Van Halen were something totally different from their peers, imo.
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Negative Creep wrote:
So I guess you'd have to say that Child In Time was the real starting point as far as "influencing prog metal", imo. And that was written at about the same time as "Black Sabbath", which also introduced a whole new style of structural complexity within hard rock.


And I know you are referring to the first recorded version of CIT (you have posted it a number of times) that comes from 1969 at the beginning of the performance of the Concerto for Group and Orchestra performed live with Deep Purple and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and the release of In Rock was held back until after the release of the Concerto Album.

However, I was posting Mandrake Root as one of those earlier examples my friend ... Take care
Author:  Negative Creep [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Yeah, both "Child In Time" and "Black Sabbath" were written at relatively the same time (mid-to-late 69).

Madrake Root is a good example, but I wouldnt call it as big of an influence on prog metal as Child In Time.

And what about Uriah Heep? I'd say early tunes like "Gypsy" and "Set Your Sights" were rather influential to the style.
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Negative Creep wrote:
Yeah, both "Child In Time" and "Black Sabbath" were written at relatively the same time (mid-to-late 69).

Madrake Root is a good example, but I wouldnt call it as big of an influence on prog metal as Child In Time.

And what about Uriah Heep? I'd say early tunes like "Gypsy" and "Set Your Sights" were rather influential to the style.


I just mention Mandrake Root as a foundation tune to a style that is beginning to evolve ..

:biggrin: and you know I am going to say there are influenced by DP my friend and I do know you are a fan of Byron a wonderful vocalist ... and UH was another extremely talented band ... huge in Europe with a very decent level of success in the US ... Take care

One small example starting in alphabetical order, album charts for Austria in the early 70`s


Austrian Year End Charts

1970
ALBEN - TOP 10
1 Simon & Garfunkel Bridge Over Troubled Water
2 Deep Purple Deep Purple In Rock
3 Beatles Let It Be
4 Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin II
5 Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin III
6 Creedence Clearwater Revival Cosmo's Factory
7 Rolling Stones Let It Bleed
8 Beatles Abbey Road
9 Udo Jürgens Udo '71
10 Black Sabbath Paranoid

1971
ALBEN - TOP 10
1 Peter Alexander Mein Geschenk für dich
2 Creedence Clearwater Revival Pendulum
3 George Harrison All Things Must Pass
4 Deep Purple Deep Purple In Rock
5 Black Sabbath Paranoid
6 Udo Jürgens Udo '71
7 Rolling Stones Sticky Fingers
8 Ten Years After Watt
9 Andre Heller Andre-Heller-Platte
10 Creedence Clearwater Revival Cosmo's Factory

1973
Platz Interpret Titel Punkte

1 Pink Floyd The Dark Side Of The Moon 74
2 Beatles 1962-1966 55
3 Beatles 1967-1970 54
4 Les Humphries Singers Mexico 46
5 Deep Purple Who Do We Think We Are 44
6 Deep Purple Made In Japan 42
7 Klaus & Ferdl Ein Abend auf der Heidi 37
8 Les Humphries Singers Mama Loo 23
9 Kurt Sowinetz Alle Menschen san ma zwider 22
10 Peter Alexander P. A. 20
11 Slade Slayed? 19
12 Alice Cooper Billion Dollar Babies 18
13 Demis Roussos Forever And Ever 17
14 Deep Purple Machine Head 16
15 Jethro Tull A Passion Play 16
16 Uriah Heep Live January 1973 16
17 Led Zeppelin House Of The Holy 15
18 Rolling Stones Goat's Head Soup 11
19 Carlos Santana Love Devotion Surrender 11
20 Alice Cooper School's Out 7

1974
Platz Interpret Titel Punkte

1 Beatles 1962-1966 81
2 Deep Purple Burn 68
3 Nazareth Rampant 59
4 Beatles 1967-1970 48
5 Nazareth Loud 'n' Proud 47
6 Waterloo & Robinson Sing My Song 38
7 Bob Dylan Before The Flood 33
8 Demis Roussos Forever And Ever 28
9 Klaus & Ferdl Heidi, Heidi, tua's no amal 21
10 Uriah Heep Wonderworld 20
11 Soundtrack Jesus Christ Superstar 19
12 Suzi Quatro Suzi Quatro 18
13 Emerson, Lake & Palmer Welcome Back My Friends To he ... 15
14 Cat Stevens Buddha And The Chocolate Box 15
15 Leonhard Cohen New Skin For The Old Ceremony 14
16 Ike & Tina Turner Nutbush City Limits 14
17 Bob Dylan Planet Waves 13
18 Sweet Sweet Fanny Adams 9
19 Pink Floyd The Dark Side Of The Moon 8
20 Deep Purple Stormbringer 7

1975
Platz Interpret Titel Punkte

1 Wolfgang Ambros Es lebe der Zentralfriedhof 43
2 Elvis Presley Elvis - Seine 40 größten Hits 37
3 Frank Zander Wahnsinn 35
4 Otto Oh, Otto 31
5 Waterloo & Robinson Sing My Song 26
6 Santana Santana Greatest Hits 26
7 Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti 25
8 Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here 25
9 Barry White Can't Get Enough Of Your Love, Babe 24
10 Georg Danzer Ollas leiwaund 24
11 Uriah Heep Return To Fantasy 23
12 George Baker Selection Paloma Blanca 20
13 Deep Purple Stormbringer 20
14 Mike Krüger Mein Gott, Walther 19
15 Elvis Presley Elvis Forever 15
16 Neil Diamond Serenade 14
17 Waterloo & Robinson Please Love Me 14
18 Duo Fenneberg-Moser Waxln - kraxln - schnaxln 11
19 James Last Non Stop Dancing 20 10
20 Deep Purple 24 Carat Purple 8
Author:  Negative Creep [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Actually I'd say that Heep were much more of an early influence on prog metal...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKKtDbclBs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t28kudqwENs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQBSeclvMV8[/youtube]
Author:  gminer [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
Negative Creep wrote:
Actually I'd say that Heep were much more of an early influence on prog metal...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKKtDbclBs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t28kudqwENs[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQBSeclvMV8[/youtube]


Germany over the same period .... Take care


1970

01) Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon & Garfunkel
02) Easy Rider - Soundtrack
03) Hair - Soundtrack
04) Led Zeppelin II - Led Zeppelin
05) In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida - Iron Butterfly
06) In Rock - Deep Purple
07) Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
08) Abbey Road - Beatles
09) Benefit - Jethro Tull
10) Let It Bleed - Rolling Stones

1971

01) In Rock - Deep Purple
02) Abraxas - Santana
03) Pendulum - Creedence Clearwater Revival
04) Pearl - Janis Joplin
05) Sticky Fingers - Rolling Stones
06) Aqualung - Jethro Tull
07) Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Emerson, Lake & Palmer
08) Led Zeppelin III - Led Zeppelin
09) Paranoid - Black Sabbath
10) Tarkus - Emerson, Lake & Palmer

1972

01) Machine Head - Deep Purple
02) Fireball - Deep Purple
03) Harvest - Neil Young
04) Santana 3 - Santana
05) Meddle - Pink Floyd
06) Pictures At An Exhibition - Emerson, Lake & Palmer
07) Demons And Wizards - Uriah Heep
08) Electric Warrior - T. Rex
09) Star Portrait - Johnny Cash
10) Thick As A Brick - Jethro Tull

1973

01) Made In Japan - Deep Purple
02) Back To Front - Gilbert O`Sullivan
03) Ekseption 5 - Ekseption
04) Dark Side Of The Moon - Pink Floyd
05) Rock Me Baby - David Cassidy
06) Who Do We Think We Are? - Deep Purple
07) 1962-1966 - Beatles
08) Houses Of The Holy - Led Zeppelin
09) Slayed? - Slade
10) The Magician`s Birthday - Uriah Heep

1974

01) 1962-1966 - Beatles
02) 1967-1970 - Beatles
03) Suzi Quatro - Suzi Quatro
04) Burn - Deep Purple
05) 20 Power Hits - Various
06) 20 Rock`n`Roll Greats - Various
07) 20 Top Hits - Various
08) Sweet Fanny Adams - Sweet
09) 20 Original Top Hits - Various
10) 20 Origianl Top Hits, Volume 2 - Various
Author:  dmille [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
"Gypsy" sounds to be like the touchstone for half of all the power metal songs ever done.
Author:  dmille [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Greatest Artists Of Hard Rock
pauldrach wrote:
gminer wrote:
bunch of youtube links I can't watch thanks to the GEMA

I added Hawkwind, April Wine and Golden Earring to the starting list though I think only Hawkwind might make the top 100.


Having grown up in Michigan, I listened to Windsor's CKLW when it was a rock & roll station. To the average American, April Wine is just another one-hit wonder with their wimpy power ballad "Just Between You And Me'. But they had a lot of Canadian hits and some of them pretty decent rock & hard rock tunes. Once again, I go back to my suggestion of US and UK chart first, Aussie & Canuck & Nazi charts after.

They might make the list somewhere in the lower ranks (175-200 if the list is gonna be that long).
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