Greatest Rock Albums of All Time

Bruce · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:04 pm

chicken sandwich wrote:

I edited my post because honestly I don't give a shit about Paranoid being below Raising Hell. It makes sense to me, I get it. However, Paranoid's influence vs. Raising Hell's influence is an entirely different debate. Paranoid influenced whole other genres of rock. It influenced the conception of metal. It influenced the creation of other mega rock bands (AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden etc...) which went on to influence and inspire on their own. Raising Hell is influential and it's influence continues to course through popular music unlike Paranoid, I agree, but understand that Paranoid is much bigger than what you're giving it credit for.

Bruce wrote:

By the way, I like the song "Paranoid" a lot, it's on my list of favorites from 1970, at #115. It's certainly better than anything I ever heard by Run-DMC.

115 ¦ Paranoid ¦ Black Sabbath

so why haven't you listened to the rest of the album?

Well I've heard "Iron Man" and "War Pigs" and I think they both are putrid.

Bruce · **Posted:** Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:13 pm

By the way, I just sold a DJ copy of "Paranoid" (the 45) to a guy in Norway:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200821418169?ss ... 1559.l2649

pauldrach · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:14 am

Bruce wrote:

chicken sandwich wrote:

Bruce wrote:

First off, an editor on a DDD list, if he is doing the list properly, does not have to hear ANY of the music on the list. The editor can be deaf from birth and still make a great list if he does it properly.

I stopped reading here. If you honestly believe this then I give you no credit as an editor. Editor's should be objective but they should still listen to and appreciate the material that they're analyzing.

Not only do I believe it, but I've practiced it on some of my lists. I've never heard several of the records that are some of my lists. Editors should not be "analyzing" the materia at all. They should be researching what the rest of the world thinks of the material. But their own personal opinion of the material it totally irrelevant to making the list.

chicken sandwich wrote:

It would be like a person who doesn't watch baseball making a list of the games best players,

That would be absolutely no problem for a good researcher/writer. The object of these lists is to measure the reaction of the rest of world. The editor should not in any way be using his personal taste to choose or rank the items. You don't have to know a thing about baseball to reserach this and come up with a very respectable list of the best players.

If I worked at a magazine and my editor assigned me to make a list of the 100 greatest paintings oif all time, which I know nothing about, I'm positive I could do the proper research to put together a very competent list, without having ever seen most of the paintings.

I completely agree with Bruce here. Having heard the music can prove to be helpful if you want to judge influence but usually you will be on the safer side if you look at the opinion of actual rock historians for these sorts of things. For judging popularity and impact/acclaim having heard the music is completely useless.

As Bruce already pointed out it can even be a disadvantage if you have heard the music since it will let your own opinion influence the rankings, which will make them less objective. That is not necessarily a bad thing if it doesn't happen to a degree that will make the rankings seem ridiculous when weighed against the objective criteria.

chicken sandwich · **Joined:** Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:28 am **Posts:** 3104

I get what you're both trying to say, impartiality is important and I get that but I prefer an editor who actually knows what he is ranking and more inportantly someobe who is enthusiastic about listening to everything he is judging. Could this create bias? Probably, but the collaboration of the community could help conduct a sense of equilibrium.

And it's not as if Bruce is at a 100% objective stance, he's listened to some of the stuff on the list and ignored others because its not in his comfort zone. Hes expressed strong opinions in the past. I'd much rather have an editor who is passionate and open minded about listening to all of the material than someone with predetermined and extreme selective taste. I get Bruce is trying to preach to us he's being objective and be analytical about the prcoess but he's out of his element ranking stuff he's never heard, at least in my mind.

pauldrach · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:54 am

chicken sandwich wrote:

And it's not as if Bruce is at a 100% objective stance, he's listened to some of the stuff on the list and ignored others because its not in his comfort zone. I'd much rather have an editor who is passionate and open minded about listening to all of the material than someone with predetermined and extreme selective taste.

Bruce is not the editor of this list anyway. If we could get an editor who has heard all the albums that could possibly have a shot at making the list and likes them all equally, that would be great, but I don't think we have anybody around who fits that description.

Bruce does have selective taste. We all do to a certain degree and there's nothing wrong with an editor having it as long as he doesn't let it affect the rankings.

chicken sandwich wrote:

I get Bruce is trying to preach to us he's being objective but he's out of his element ranking stuff he's never heard, at least in my mind.

The only album list he edits is the 50s one as far as I'm aware of. I personally think his lists are usually very well-balanced and respond to the criteria very well.

Bruce · **Posted:** Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:59 am

pauldrach wrote:

The only album list he edits is the 50s one as far as I'm aware of. I personally think his lists are usually very well-balanced and respond to the criteria very well.

I edit the top ten albums of each year from 1956 through 1989, but they are essentially just taken from the decade lists. There are loads of albums on those lists that I have never heard. There are even a few artists that I have never heard of (Pixies, Stone Roses, Pogues).

In most years I just listed the ten highest ranking albums from that year, on the decade list.

Deany · **Posted:** Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:00 pm

Bruno wrote:

If we consider a list is based on lists of decades we have in the forum/main site, would look like this, and have MANY changes. Many albums would be left out, and others come into their places.

1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) - The Beatles
2. Pet Sounds (1966) - The Beach Boys
3. What's Going On (1971) - Marvin Gaye
4. Thriller (1982) - Michael Jackson
5. Dark Side Of The Moon (1973) - Pink Floyd
6. Revolver (1966) - The Beatles
7. Highway 61 Revisited (1965) - Bob Dylan
8. Nevermind (1991) - Nirvana
9. Rubber Soul (1965) - The Beatles
10. Are You Experienced? (1967) - Jimi Hendrix

11. London Calling (1979) - The Clash
12. Elvis Presley (1956) - Elvis Presley
13. Born To Run (1975) - Bruce Springsteen
14. Exile On Main Street (1972) - The Rolling Stones
15. Blonde On Blonde (1966) - Bob Dylan
16. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back (1988) - Public Enemy
17. Innervisions (1973) - Stevie Wonder
18. Abbey Road (1969) - The Beatles
19. Live at the Apollo (1962) - James Brown
20. Purple Rain (1984) - Prince

21. Who's Next (1971) - The Who
22. The Joshua Tree (1987) - U2
23. Tommy (1969) - The Who
24. Led Zeppelin IV (1971) - Led Zeppelin
25. Songs In The Key Of Life (1976) - Stevie Wonder
26. Rumours (1977) - Fleetwood Mac
27. The Beatles ("The White Album") (1968) - The Beatles
28. Led Zeppelin II (1969) - Led Zeppelin
29. Raising Hell (1986) - Run D.M.C.
30. Ten (1991) - Pearl Jam

31. The Doors (1967) - The Doors
32. Blue (1971) - Joni Mitchell
33. Bringing It All Back Home (1965) - Bob Dylan
34. Tapestry (1971) - Carole King
35. Appetite For Destruction (1987) - Guns N Roses
36. Let It Bleed (1969) - The Rolling Stones
37. I Never Loved A Man the Way I Love You (1967) - Aretha Franklin
38. Velvet Underground And Nico (1967) - Velvet Underground
39. Paranoid (1970) - Black Sabbath
40. Ziggy Stardust & The Spiders From Mars (1972) - David Bowie

41. There's A Riot Goin' On (1971) - Sly And The Family Stone
42. OK Computer – Radiohead (1997)
43. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill – Lauryn Hill (1998)
44. Licensed To Ill (1986) - Beastie Boys
45. Back In Black (1980) - AC/DC
46. The Wall (1979) - Pink Floyd
47. Electric Ladyland (1968) - Jimi Hendrix Experience
48. Blood On The Tracks (1975) - Bob Dylan
49. Never Mind The Bollocks Here's The Sex Pistols (1977) - Sex Pistols
50. Led Zeppelin I (1969) - Led Zeppelin

Albums that are on the current list to be left out:

28. Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music (1962)* - Ray Charles
76. From Elvis In Memphis (1969)* - Elvis Presely
117. Hot Buttered Soul (1969)* - Issac Hayes
118. If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears (1966)* - The Mamas & The Pappas
121. Fresh (1973)* - Sly & The Family Stone
125. The Beach Boys Today! (1965) - The Beach Boys
128. Rock Around The Clock (1956)* – Bill Haley & His Comets
132. Ray Charles at Newport (1958)* - Ray Charles
140. Sweet Baby James (1970) - James Taylor
149. Parallel Lines (1978)* - Blondie
151. Surfin U.S.A. (1963)* - The Beach Boys
154. Call Me (1973) - Al Green
158. Maggot Brain (1971) - Funkadelic
159. Darkness on the Edge of Town (1978)* - Bruce Springsteen
161. Band On The Run (1973)* - Paul McCartney/Wings
166. Going To A Go-Go (1965)* - Smokey Robinson & The Miracles
171. Fear Of A Black Planet (1990) - Public Enemy
172. The Ventures In Space (1964)* - The Ventures
173. Headquarters (1967)* - The Monkees
176. Young, Gifted & Black (1972)* - Aretha Franklin
180. All Eyez On Me (1996)* - 2Pac
193. Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) (1993)* - Wu-Tang Clan
194. Bad Girls (1979)* - Donna Summer
200. Village Green Preservation Society (1968) - The Kinks

Just saw this. I know no one's really discussing this list right now, but whatever.

First the top 20:

Thriller > Dark Side > Revolver > Highway 61 Revisited? Not so sure about that. (Note that I'm not so sure with my breakdowns either.)

Popularity: Thriller > Dark Side > Revolver > Highway 61 Revisited
Influence: Revolver > Highway 61 Revisited > Thriller > Dark Side
Musical Impact: Revolver >/= Highway 61 > Dark Side >/= Thriller

I'm thinking: Revolver > Highway 61 > Thriller > Dark Side, but then again, I could be wrong.

Also:

Thriller vs. Rubber Soul
Popularity: Thriller. Duh.
Influence: Rubber Soul by a decent amount.
Musical Impact: Rubber Soul, again by a decent amount.

I'd think RS's wins in both Influence and Musical Impact are at least equivalent to Thriller's massive popularity win. Thus, with influence as the tiebreaker: Rubber Soul > Thriller

Also:

Live at the Apollo vs. Revolver:

Popularity: Tie, I guess. Both albums are pretty popular. If someone has to win, it's probably Revolver.
Influence: Again, it's close. I'm leaning towards Live at the Apollo for this. Again, I could be wrong.
Musical Impact: Tie

Looking like a tie, so I'm going to use influence as a tiebreaker (again) and putting LatA at #4. Feel free to correct me though.

This is what I think the top 20 should look like:

1. Sgt. Pepper
2. Pet Sounds
3. What's Going On
4. Live at the Apollo
5. Revolver
6. Highway 61 Revisited
7. Rubber Soul
8. Thriller
9. Dark Side of the Moon
10. Are You Experienced?
11. Nevermind
12. Exile on Main St.
13. Born to Run
14. Elvis Presley
15. Blonde on Blonde
16. Abbey Road
17. It Takes a Nation of Millions...
18. London Calling
19. Modern Sounds... (why the hell was this removed?)
20. Innervisions

Stryder · **Joined:** Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:43 pm **Posts:** 2325

Bruce wrote:

chicken sandwich wrote:

I edited my post because honestly I don't give a shit about Paranoid being below Raising Hell. It makes sense to me, I get it. However, Paranoid's influence vs. Raising Hell's influence is an entirely different debate. Paranoid influenced whole other genres of rock. It influenced the conception of metal. It influenced the creation of other mega rock bands (AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden etc...) which went on to influence and inspire on their own. Raising Hell is influential and it's influence continues to course through popular music unlike Paranoid, I agree, but understand that Paranoid is much bigger than what you're giving it credit for.

Bruce wrote:

By the way, I like the song "Paranoid" a lot, it's on my list of favorites from 1970, at #115. It's certainly better than anything I ever heard by Run-DMC.

115 ¦ Paranoid ¦ Black Sabbath

so why haven't you listened to the rest of the album?

Well I've heard "Iron Man" and "War Pigs" and I think they both are putrid.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O63COyZlTyU[/youtube]

Bruno · **Joined:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:00 am **Posts:** 3702

Who is the editor of this list? Rob?

The original list is good, but needs some adjustments.

Brian · **Joined:** Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:52 pm **Posts:** 4300

Yes, Rob is the editor.

Bruno · **Joined:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:00 am **Posts:** 3702

Deany wrote:

Just saw this. I know no one's really discussing this list right now, but whatever.

First the top 20:

Thriller > Dark Side > Revolver > Highway 61 Revisited? Not so sure about that. (Note that I'm not so sure with my breakdowns either.)

Popularity: Thriller > Dark Side > Revolver > Highway 61 Revisited
Influence: Revolver > Highway 61 Revisited > Thriller > Dark Side
Musical Impact: Revolver >/= Highway 61 > Dark Side >/= Thriller

I'm thinking: Revolver > Highway 61 > Thriller > Dark Side, but then again, I could be wrong.

Also:

Thriller vs. Rubber Soul
Popularity: Thriller. Duh.
Influence: Rubber Soul by a decent amount.
Musical Impact: Rubber Soul, again by a decent amount.

I'd think RS's wins in both Influence and Musical Impact are at least equivalent to Thriller's massive popularity win. Thus, with influence as the tiebreaker: Rubber Soul > Thriller

Also:

Live at the Apollo vs. Revolver:

Popularity: Tie, I guess. Both albums are pretty popular. If someone has to win, it's probably Revolver.
Influence: Again, it's close. I'm leaning towards Live at the Apollo for this. Again, I could be wrong.
Musical Impact: Tie

Looking like a tie, so I'm going to use influence as a tiebreaker (again) and putting LatA at #4. Feel free to correct me though.

This is what I think the top 20 should look like:

1. Sgt. Pepper
2. Pet Sounds
3. What's Going On
4. Live at the Apollo
5. Revolver
6. Highway 61 Revisited
7. Rubber Soul
8. Thriller
9. Dark Side of the Moon
10. Are You Experienced?
11. Nevermind
12. Exile on Main St.
13. Born to Run
14. Elvis Presley
15. Blonde on Blonde
16. Abbey Road
17. It Takes a Nation of Millions...
18. London Calling
19. Modern Sounds... (why the hell was this removed?)
20. Innervisions

I don't think that "Modern Sounds" could make the top 20.

"Thriller" is a top 5 album, imo. Score very well in all criteria, and win in popularity of any album in the list.

I'd keep it as top 20:

1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) - The Beatles
2. Pet Sounds (1966) - The Beach Boys
3. What's Going On (1971) - Marvin Gaye
4. Thriller (1982) - Michael Jackson
5. Dark Side Of The Moon (1973) - Pink Floyd
6. Revolver (1966) - The Beatles
7. Highway 61 Revisited (1965) - Bob Dylan
8. Nevermind (1991) - Nirvana
9. Rubber Soul (1965) - The Beatles
10. Are You Experienced? (1967) - Jimi Hendrix

11. London Calling (1979) - The Clash
12. Elvis Presley (1956) - Elvis Presley
13. Born To Run (1975) - Bruce Springsteen
14. Exile On Main Street (1972) - The Rolling Stones
15. Blonde On Blonde (1966) - Bob Dylan
16. It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back (1988) - Public Enemy
17. Innervisions (1973) - Stevie Wonder
18. Abbey Road (1969) - The Beatles
19. Live at the Apollo (1962) - James Brown
20. Purple Rain (1984) - Prince

Deany · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:17 pm

I have a lot of issues with your list, but here are the main ones:

A.) Modern Sounds not being top 20. It's one of those albums that's insanely influential, and it scores decently in the other criteria. A top 20 lock, in my opinion.

B.) Live at the Apollo being atrociously low. Sampson discussed a couple of pages back why it should be top 5, and I agree with him. It scores extremely well in all the criteria, and it beats Thriller pretty handily in Musical Impact and Influence, even factoring in the latter's huge popularity advantage.

C.)Thriller and Dark Side being in the top 5. It seems you're being a bit popularity-centric with your lists. The two albums are the top two when it comes to popularity, but are probably the bottom two (among the top 10) when it comes to Influence and Musical Impact. Revolver, Highway 61, and Rubber Soul are pretty easily more influential than the two albums. Dark Side, for one, has very little influence.

D.)Nevermind being in the top 10. Admittedly, it scores pretty well in all the criteria, but not as well as, say, Rubber Soul. Rubber Soul is an hugely influential album, since it's considered one of, if not the first "album"-album. That is, it works as a cohesive whole instead of just a bunch of songs stuck together on a record.

E.)London Calling being that high. I had a long and detailed debate a few pages back with CRJ over London Calling vs. Nation vs. Abbey Road, and we agreed on a certain order of Nation>Abbey>London. I stand by that, and my entire case can be found a few pages back. For one, there is no feasible argument for London Calling being greater than Elvis Presley.

Oh, and I'd appreciate if you'd elaborate on why you think what you think. It would be better than just going, "I think that...".

Bruno · **Joined:** Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:00 am **Posts:** 3702

Deany wrote:

I have a lot of issues with your list, but here are the main ones:

A.) Modern Sounds not being top 20. It's one of those albums that's insanely influential, and it scores decently in the other criteria. A top 20 lock, in my opinion.

It certainly is an important album, high acclaim and influence, I'd probably put him in 21-30.

Deany wrote:

B.) Live at the Apollo being atrociously low. Sampson discussed a couple of pages back why it should be top 5, and I agree with him. It scores extremely well in all the criteria, and it beats Thriller pretty handily in Musical Impact and Influence, even factoring in the latter's huge popularity advantage.

I agree that Sampson's argument is good, but I still can't imagine being top 5. It is the greatest live album of all time, with great influence, but loses in acclaim for most of the top 20 albums.

Deany wrote:

C.)Thriller and Dark Side being in the top 5. It seems you're being a bit popularity-centric with your lists. The two albums are the top two when it comes to popularity, but are probably the bottom two (among the top 10) when it comes to Influence and Musical Impact. Revolver, Highway 61, and Rubber Soul are pretty easily more influential than the two albums. Dark Side, for one, has very little influence.

Popularity is only one part of the criterion, and these two albums, as you said, lead. But along with that, they are immensely acclaimed and influential.

Deany wrote:

D.)Nevermind being in the top 10. Admittedly, it scores pretty well in all the criteria, but not as well as, say, Rubber Soul. Rubber Soul is an hugely influential album, since it's considered one of, if not the first "album"-album. That is, it works as a cohesive whole instead of just a bunch of songs stuck together on a record.

This comparison is very difficult, I can see both in the top 10. Nevermind is the greatest album - with a good advantage - of 90s. His influence is colossal.

Deany wrote:

E.)London Calling being that high. I had a long and detailed debate a few pages back with CRJ over London Calling vs. Nation vs. Abbey Road, and we agreed on a certain order of Nation>Abbey>London. I stand by that, and my entire case can be found a few pages back. For one, there is no feasible argument for London Calling being greater than Elvis Presley.

Here I agree with you. On second thought, I think "London" could drop a few positions, but staying in the top 20.

Deany · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:07 am

I'm on my phone so I can't directly quote, but here goes.

Modern Sounds is a hugely influential album with a lot of acclaim. I'd say influence alone would be enough to put it above Purple Rain.

Live at the Apollo kills in acclaim. What are you talking about?

While Thriller and Dark Side are quite acclaimed and influential, they're probably the least acclaimed and influential of the top 10. Rubber Soul, Revolver, Highway 61, and Live at the Apollo all score massive points in influence, and they're all highly acclaimed albums. I'd say their huge wins in those two criteria make up for the two albums' wins in popularity.

Rubber Soul is way more influential than Nevermind, though the latter's influence is also huge. Acclaim is close, and popularity is a decent win for Nevermind. By that, I say Rubber Soul wins.

ClashWho · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:22 am

I know it's me saying this, but... Who's Next is greater than Purple Rain.

Greatest Rock Albums of All Time

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