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state your unpopular opinions as facts
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Author:  pave [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

thejew wrote:
Because music has moved on from that point. As artists they can do whatever they want, and if they want to rip off Zeppelin songs then more power to them. But to think they have any merit or credibility as legitimate artists is false, as they're like a poor man's tribute band. Zeppelin has enough bands and people on their dicks as it is. They're just perpetuating this stupid mindset that all great rock music was made in the late 60s/early 70s and I can hear thousands of old dad rockers exclaiming "Finally! A great band from this decade!" when hearing Wolfmother.


i swear, i hadn't seen this when i typed my post. but yeah, this is exactly what i'm talking about :zoid:

Author:  corrections [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

thejew wrote:
Because music has moved on from that point. As artists they can do whatever they want, and if they want to rip off Zeppelin songs then more power to them. But to think they have any merit or credibility as legitimate artists is false, as they're like a poor man's tribute band. Zeppelin has enough bands and people on their dicks as it is. They're just perpetuating this stupid mindset that all great rock music was made in the late 60s/early 70s and I can hear thousands of old dad rockers exclaiming "Finally! A great band from this decade!" when hearing Wolfmother.


Careful not to draw too broad a brush here. Moving on in a linear progression always forward is both not how music history happens nor how it should. For example would you call Stravinsky and other moderm composers neoclassical stuff without merit artistically? Afterall they were moving back to an older point. Someone can look back to older influences and create something new and interesting. Your framework is every bit as tyrannical as the tyranny of the lates 60s and early 70s.

Author:  thejew [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

corrections wrote:
thejew wrote:
Because music has moved on from that point. As artists they can do whatever they want, and if they want to rip off Zeppelin songs then more power to them. But to think they have any merit or credibility as legitimate artists is false, as they're like a poor man's tribute band. Zeppelin has enough bands and people on their dicks as it is. They're just perpetuating this stupid mindset that all great rock music was made in the late 60s/early 70s and I can hear thousands of old dad rockers exclaiming "Finally! A great band from this decade!" when hearing Wolfmother.


Careful not to draw too broad a brush here. Moving on in a linear progression always forward is both not how music history happens nor how it should. For example would you call Stravinsky and other moderm composers neoclassical stuff without merit artistically? Afterall they were moving back to an older point. Someone can look back to older influences and create something new and interesting. Your framework is every bit as tyrannical as the tyranny of the lates 60s and early 70s.


Well yes and I intend it to be, because I'm incredibly elitist. I certainly do agree that the idea of a perfectly linear progression is absurd though.

Author:  corrections [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

thejew wrote:
corrections wrote:
thejew wrote:
Because music has moved on from that point. As artists they can do whatever they want, and if they want to rip off Zeppelin songs then more power to them. But to think they have any merit or credibility as legitimate artists is false, as they're like a poor man's tribute band. Zeppelin has enough bands and people on their dicks as it is. They're just perpetuating this stupid mindset that all great rock music was made in the late 60s/early 70s and I can hear thousands of old dad rockers exclaiming "Finally! A great band from this decade!" when hearing Wolfmother.


Careful not to draw too broad a brush here. Moving on in a linear progression always forward is both not how music history happens nor how it should. For example would you call Stravinsky and other moderm composers neoclassical stuff without merit artistically? Afterall they were moving back to an older point. Someone can look back to older influences and create something new and interesting. Your framework is every bit as tyrannical as the tyranny of the lates 60s and early 70s.


Well yes and I intend it to be, because I'm incredibly elitist. I certainly do agree that the idea of a perfectly linear progression is absurd though.


I think if you explored your idea a little bit more I think you would find it untenable.

Author:  Adequate Gatsby [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

I do get where The Jew is coming from though. I don't think Wolfmother are really adding anything to the dialog, they are just reverting to the past. They are almost treating rock as if it is a folk music that doesn't need to advance but rather preserved. In the same way, The Marsalis clan treats Jazz as though it is some dead artifact worth preserving rather than a living thing that is bound to adapt to its environment.

Author:  chicken sandwich [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

Adequate Gatsby wrote:
Little Room is the best white stripes song ever.

thats funny. Death Letter is probably their best song tbh even though its a cover.

Author:  corrections [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

Adequate Gatsby wrote:
I do get where The Jew is coming from though. I don't think Wolfmother are really adding anything to the dialog, they are just reverting to the past. They are almost treating rock as if it is a folk music that doesn't need to advance but rather preserved. In the same way, The Marsalis clan treats Jazz as though it is some dead artifact worth preserving rather than a living thing that is bound to adapt to its environment.


And that's a reasonable assertion. If you aren't growing it you're just living in the past and if you're just making copies of the past you might as well be playing covers (like playing the actual folk songs). This is different from doing what a lot of the Romantic classical composers did with classical music (and indeed folk) and different than what Led Zeppelin did with the blues.

Author:  thejew [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

corrections wrote:
thejew wrote:
corrections wrote:
thejew wrote:
Because music has moved on from that point. As artists they can do whatever they want, and if they want to rip off Zeppelin songs then more power to them. But to think they have any merit or credibility as legitimate artists is false, as they're like a poor man's tribute band. Zeppelin has enough bands and people on their dicks as it is. They're just perpetuating this stupid mindset that all great rock music was made in the late 60s/early 70s and I can hear thousands of old dad rockers exclaiming "Finally! A great band from this decade!" when hearing Wolfmother.


Careful not to draw too broad a brush here. Moving on in a linear progression always forward is both not how music history happens nor how it should. For example would you call Stravinsky and other moderm composers neoclassical stuff without merit artistically? Afterall they were moving back to an older point. Someone can look back to older influences and create something new and interesting. Your framework is every bit as tyrannical as the tyranny of the lates 60s and early 70s.


Well yes and I intend it to be, because I'm incredibly elitist. I certainly do agree that the idea of a perfectly linear progression is absurd though.


I think if you explored your idea a little bit more I think you would find it untenable.


Oh I know it is. But this is really all I have to say on the matter:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKDvJTxZDbA[/youtube]

Author:  zephead8 [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

i used to love wolfmother for the reason of "finally a good band from this decade" but that was back in 06 when i was 16 and if you couldnt tell by the username or you may remember i was completely obsessed with led zeppelin. my friend actually still likes them and i always want him to turn it off because it reminds me of my naive tendencies as a music fan when i was younger. it also sounds mad corny to me now. but i cant say that when im older i wont listen to a band that sounds like radiohead and like them just because they sound like them. its definitely a possibility.

Author:  Dipsoid [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

thejew wrote:
Because music has moved on from that point. As artists they can do whatever they want, and if they want to rip off Zeppelin songs then more power to them. But to think they have any merit or credibility as legitimate artists is false, as they're like a poor man's tribute band. Zeppelin has enough bands and people on their dicks as it is. They're just perpetuating this stupid mindset that all great rock music was made in the late 60s/early 70s and I can hear thousands of old dad rockers exclaiming "Finally! A great band from this decade!" when hearing Wolfmother.

Personally I don't think a band has to add anything new to the discussion to be a legitimately good band. It makes them a better band if they forge their own way, but I don't think sounding like Zeppelin delegitimizes Wolfmother as artists. Besides, what Zeppelin songs have they ripped off? They haven't straight-faced ripped off individual songs, they've just made a revival of sorts of that sound. We're not talking about Jet here. They do what they do well and write decent songs.

I never understood the Wolfmother hate, especially with the praise artists like Tallest Man On Earth get around here (who might as well be Bob Dylan). I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but I think it has more to do with it being dad-rock than the fact that they're emulating old music. I might be putting myself at risk here, but I'd be willing to say that Grizzly Bear and Fleet Foxes have just as much in common with The Beach Boys as Wolfmother have with Zeppelin.

Author:  joe c [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

I actually really dig the songs "Colossal" and "Mind's Eye" from Wolfmother.

Author:  pave [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

chicken sandwich wrote:
Adequate Gatsby wrote:
Little Room is the best white stripes song ever.

thats funny. Death Letter is probably their best song tbh even though its a cover.


i think these are my two fav White Stripes songs tbh. but i place Little Room slightly higher. its just perfect.

Author:  boo boo [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

My problem with Wolfmother isn't that they're copying a previous era of music but rather they're just copying one or two bands in particular and it sounds so forced, and they somehow still manage to sound like a generic modern rock band as well, they can't actually match the musicianship or range of Zep or Sabbath, they're a one noted novelty band.

Also who wants to listen to classic rock with loudness war production? Classic rock had dynamics, it's something I think is missing in modern rock music and it's why I think rock music as a broader genre is dying out while only niche subgenres will live on.

I have nothing against bands simply being nostalgiac, it just depends on how well executed it is. I like some of the newer prog bands who pretty much just borrow elements from all the great 70s prog bands, but because those bands were so vastly different from each other they still manage to find a sound of their own by merging all those influences together.

I think the White Stripes comparison is unfair because they have a much broader range of influences than Wolfmother, and by combining them they have perfected their own sound.

I guess the moral of the story is, rip off a lot of bands and you will come up with a sound of your own, rip off only one band or a couple of bands and you will end up sounding way too derivative.

Author:  pave [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

even if they aren't particularly relevant or innovative these days, Pearl Jam is the best traditional rock n roll band in the world by a large margin. i'm talking simply the ability to make arena-filling classic rock style anthems and rockers.

a step further: Pearl Jam is better now than they were in the 90s, by far.

a step further: the only bands in the traditional stripped-down classic rock mold (not prog or alt rock) who have EVER been better than Pearl Jam for as long as Pearl Jam has been are The Who and The Stones.


come at me, bros.

Author:  pave [ Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: state your unpopular opinions as facts

some more:


Tom Waits' music is better than The Beatles.

Ani DiFranco is a better lyricist than Bob Dylan.

Bob Dylan is a better songwriter and performer than he is a lyricist.

Illmatic isn't that good. and neither is Nas as a whole. the following emcees/lyricsts are all more fun to listen to: Mos Def, Redman, Big L, Eminem, Common, Talib Kweli, Big Pun.

80s Crimson > 70s Crimson

Chris Cornell was a terrible songwriter. his vocal melodies are the equivalent of snails moving through mud with anvils strapped to their backs (with no shoes, nigga)

Pet Sounds is really good for like a year after you get over the fact that, as a teenager, you thought The Beach Boys sucked (despite not knowing anything about them) but then you realized they didn't. but after that year, it really isn't all that fun to listen to anymore.

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