that's lobones
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| Author: | Domino the Rattlehead [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
Echoes wrote: Domino the Rattlehead wrote: @Echoes Dude, Hetfield is not as complete of a player or as strong of a bandleader. He had help composing from Lars and he had a lead player in Kirk. Dave could do all that himself and for the first several records had very little help writing and played about as much lead as the other players, it's pretty straight forward. Dave is very close in influence and impact if not equal. If someone can point out a flaw in that argument, please let me know what it is I'm missing. From a songwriting perspective, I think Hetfield > Mustaine. I mean, Metallica have a lot of great rock guitar songs and albums. For example, there is a new list of Greatest Heavy Metal albums by year and Metallica is #1 on a lot of years. I tried to make it super clear that James has quite a bit of songwriting 'help' from Lars(and Mustaine on several of the early tunes) whereas Dave does it all himself(or did for many years). All their direction came from him for ages(much of it is what's considered their most iconic stuff, so you do the math there). With that said, even if we gave songwriting/riff-creating to Hetfield that isn't enough to give James the edge. We have a lot of great players whose songwriting pales compared to tons of guitarists that they're ahead of on the list. |
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| Author: | Echoes [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
I really don´t know if Lars ever helped Hetfield with some guitar riffs. |
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| Author: | Sodacake [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
that's lobones
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
| That's pure gold, unless he was being sarcastic. |
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| Author: | Domino the Rattlehead [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
Echoes wrote: I really don´t know if Lars ever helped Hetfield with some guitar riffs. Well you didn't say riff creating you said "songwriting". Lars helped with key changes and songwriting direction, there's more to writing metal tunes than riffs. Mustaine didn't just write the pieces, he put them in the order by himsel and figured out every time/temp/key change. Often with no help from anyone, even Junior. And btw, Lars wrote the soft passage in 4 horseman. He can play rudimentary guitar and understands chords. |
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| Author: | Echoes [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
I don´t think that Mustaine would get so a huge move up. I think we should focus on trying to see if he is worth of a top 100 first. As I said, I feel he is at the same level of Dimebag or Buckethead. |
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| Author: | Domino the Rattlehead [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
Echoes wrote: I don´t think that Mustaine would get so a huge move up. I think we should focus on trying to see if he is worth of a top 100 first. As I said, I feel he is at the same level of Dimebag or Buckethead. Those guys(especially bucket) were not at the forefront of a genre or contributed to the growth of a subgenre. Mustaine helped further the growth of thrash metal in a huge way. I think u should watch some thrash documentaries so you know just how important he is. Dime is close, but nowhere as important |
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| Author: | Echoes [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
Yes, Mustaine had a key role in the development of trash metal and obviously he is highly influential within the genre, so he could get both criteria over Buckethead. In the case of Mustaine vs Dimebag I think that they could be tie in terms of influence and originality. |
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| Author: | Domino the Rattlehead [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
Echoes wrote: Yes, Mustaine had a key role in the development of trash metal and obviously he is highly influential within the genre, so he could get both criteria over Buckethead. In the case of Mustaine vs Dimebag I think that they could be tie in terms of influence and originality. Dime is wonderful, they are both two of the best metal players of all time in my book. I give Mustaine the edge for being a little more original and much more of a pioneer. It's one thing when only one person says someone was amazing(for instance Friedman comparing Becker to Mozart) but when Scott Ian, Gary Holt, Death Angel and Overkill have all said at one time or another that thrash metal may not even exist in the form it's known for today if it weren't for Dave Mustaine....that is really saying something. It's not just the 'thrash riff' by itself(which was pioneered years earlier) it's the songwriting style of metal that Dave brought to a whole new level. The condensed riffs and particular key modulations that became thrash hallmarks were things Mustaine was doing in Panic before Metallica had ever recorded their demo of "Hit the Lights". "Poison was the Cure" for instance was written when Dave was in his teens in the late 70s. |
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| Author: | Echoes [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
I agree. Maybe it should go something like this: Mustaine > Dimebag > Buckethead |
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| Author: | George [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
these seem to be unanimous calls, so i moved up andy timmons (125 -> 102), dave mustaine (163 -> 112), and removed thom yorke from the radiohead guitar team. does he belong on the unnumbered list? yng, are you still interested in breaking up some of the guitar teams? if so, why don't you do it the way you see fit, and maybe it'll generate some discussion in more concrete terms... also, i keep moving overrated guitarists like prince down once every year or two, and they always keep finding their way back up  seriously, how is he a greater guitarist than any of the names below him???? the main thing he has going for him is his iconic status, but even with that in mind, i see no way how he is any way a bigger name than chris rea. i'm not crazy, am i? someone back me up on this please...
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| Author: | Domino the Rattlehead [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
George wrote: these seem to be unanimous calls, so i moved up andy timmons (125 -> 102), dave mustaine (163 -> 112), and removed thom yorke from the radiohead guitar team. does he belong on the unnumbered list? yng, are you still interested in breaking up some of the guitar teams? if so, why don't you do it the way you see fit, and maybe it'll generate some discussion in more concrete terms... also, i keep moving overrated guitarists like prince down once every year or two, and they always keep finding their way back up seriously, how is he a greater guitarist than any of the names below him???? the main thing he has going for him is his iconic status, but even with that in mind, i see no way how he is any way a bigger name than chris rea. i'm not crazy, am i? someone back me up on this please...Prince is an overrated guitarist? This is news to me. |
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| Author: | Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
George wrote: yng, are you still interested in breaking up some of the guitar teams? if so, why don't you do it the way you see fit, and maybe it'll generate some discussion in more concrete terms... Yeah, that should work. Got some ideas where I reckon they'd look good, and it's always a good way to generate discussions and get some real feedback. As for Prince, is this the part where I post the video of him playing "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," as if no one's ever seen the footage before? |
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| Author: | Domino the Rattlehead [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
Yngtchie Blacksteen wrote: George wrote: yng, are you still interested in breaking up some of the guitar teams? if so, why don't you do it the way you see fit, and maybe it'll generate some discussion in more concrete terms... Yeah, that should work. Got some ideas where I reckon they'd look good, and it's always a good way to generate discussions and get some real feedback. As for Prince, is this the part where I post the video of him playing "While My Guitar Gently Weeps," as if no one's ever seen the footage before? May be so bold as to admit that I'm a huge Prince fan and have never seen it? 
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| Author: | Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists |
I think the talk about Prince's guitar skills has a lot to do with him being more known as a pop singer than as a guitarist, so his guitar skills are then talked about in very glowing terms to compensate for him apparently being underrated. I don't feel he's underrated, but I reckon his best qualities as a guitarist lies more in his funk rhythm rather than his more traditional lead work. Nothing wrong with either of these, but I don't believe I've heard him branch out as a guitarist in such a way that a high rating is justified. Maybe others who are more familiar with his music could chime in? |
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