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250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
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Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
Okay, let me put it this way: in which parts of the criteria do you think EVH wins?
Author:  Domino the Rattlehead [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
Iommi is a more original player than EVH for sure, but more creative? Not a chance. Eddie is a much more experimental player. I can think of very few players who have integrated techniques into their style the way he has. Where they aren't just used for typical shred approach but they become eccentricities and a part of the player's voice. That's true brilliance. Overall there are more eccentricities in Ed's playing than in Tony's.

And as for his chord voicings and use of natural and tapped harmonics. The intro to "Women in Love"...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofxm92XcMI[/youtube]

Yngtchie, great point about integrating lead and rhythm so perfectly.
Author:  The Seeker [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
GButler wrote:
Okay, let me put it this way: in which parts of the criteria do you think EVH wins?


Welcome to DDD GButler.

Your name obviously nails your colours to the mast. But Tony and EVH are only 1 place apart. Its not really worth arguing about. Thousands of posters over years have debated these points and I'll wager that pretty well every one of them has heard or owned most Sabbath albums. Its so tight up there that places 3-7 are virtually interchangeable.

We're really looking to tidy up the 50+ and 100+ regions

Any thoughts in those areas?
Author:  Domino the Rattlehead [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
The Seeker wrote:
GButler wrote:
Okay, let me put it this way: in which parts of the criteria do you think EVH wins?


Welcome to DDD GButler.

Your name obviously nails your colours to the mast. But Tony and EVH are only 1 place apart. Its not really worth arguing about. Thousands of posters over years have debated these points and I'll wager that pretty well every one of them has heard or owned most Sabbath albums. Its so tight up there that places 3-7 are virtually interchangeable.

We're really looking to tidy up the 50+ and 100+ regions

Any thoughts in those areas?


Great post Seeker.
Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
Domino the Rattlehead wrote:
Iommi is a more original player than EVH for sure, but more creative? Not a chance. Eddie is a much more experimental player. I can think of very few players who have integrated techniques into their style the way he has. Where they aren't just used for typical shred approach but they become eccentricities and a part of the player's voice. That's true brilliance. Overall there are more eccentricities in Ed's playing than in Tony's.

And as for his chord voicings and use of natural and tapped harmonics. The intro to "Women in Love"...

Yngtchie, great point about integrating lead and rhythm so perfectly.

Even if EVH takes creativity, which I don't think he does, Iommi does have an edge in influence, originality and versatility. Granted, Eddie is a more technical player, but Iommi, unlike EVH, didn't lose his technique over the years.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCpXustZh8I[/youtube]
Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
The Seeker wrote:
GButler wrote:
Okay, let me put it this way: in which parts of the criteria do you think EVH wins?


Welcome to DDD GButler.

Your name obviously nails your colours to the mast. But Tony and EVH are only 1 place apart. Its not really worth arguing about. Thousands of posters over years have debated these points and I'll wager that pretty well every one of them has heard or owned most Sabbath albums. Its so tight up there that places 3-7 are virtually interchangeable.

We're really looking to tidy up the 50+ and 100+ regions

Any thoughts in those areas?

Yes. What about moving Rory Gallagher up?
Author:  Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
First of all, I really hate it when people can't leave the Top 10 alone, because we've been going over all the positions so many times for the past 6 years or so, I don't know any placement that hasn't already been discussed to death. We've got more than 200 guitarists on the list who are rarely even mentioned, but I guess going over the Top 10 yet again is gonna make it easier to move on and make the rest of the list look good.

Guess not.

I've mentioned EVH's rhythm style, and his leads speak for themselves. Also given my thoughts on his creativity. He was never the most versatile guitarist, and this is where Iommi has an edge, but neither are multi-genre masters like Eric Johnson or Andy Timmons. Both were innovative players, and it's perhaps more remarkable that EVH was as original as he was, a whole decade after Hendrix was literally lighting the fretboard on fire. Iommi's originality lies not only in his riffing style, but in his massive sound. Master of Reality in particular was a huge influence on James Hetfield, among many others. EVH's technique is highlighted by his groove, attitude and touch, which is something I think is just as important as merely being able to play the various licks and riffs. This ability to make even really difficult licks sound totally natural isn't something all the greats are good at, but EVH is a guy who excels at this.
Author:  Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
The Seeker wrote:
Your name obviously nails your colours to the mast.

I assumed he was a Gerard Butler fan.
Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
Yngtchie Blacksteen wrote:
and it's perhaps more remarkable that EVH was as original as he was, a whole decade after Hendrix was literally lighting the fretboard on fire.

And what? There have been myriads of players who have been original in between Hendrix and EVH. Page, Beck, Blackmore, Gilmour, Howe and May to name a few.
Author:  Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
I was using Hendrix as an example of someone who were doing new and exciting things a decade before Van Halen's debut album. I am very aware of all the players you speak of.
Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
You're digressing. I think the most disputable criterion in this case is creativity, not originality. As original as EVH is, he is not as instantly recognizable player as Iommi.
Author:  Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
GButler wrote:
You're digressing. I think the most disputable criterion in this case is creativity, not originality. As original as EVH is, he is not as instantly recognizable player as Iommi.

And I strongly disagree. :smile:

We've already decided that the Top 10 is not going to change, one of the reasons being that all of them are pretty much equal according to the criteria, so nitpicking about one position is pretty much a waste of time. Like I've said dozens of times, there are more than 200 players on the list whose positions can be changed and improved, so why are none of the new posters interested in contributing to these things?
Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
Because EVH is the most overrated guitarist of all time, and this list tends to further overrate him.

As for the 50-100 range, I already suggested moving Rory Gallagher a few slots up.
Author:  Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
See, comments like that don't help you one bit. As for Gallagher, that's more interesting, but I need you to make some arguments for why he should move higher than Bolin, just to name one player who's ahead of him.
Author:  GButler [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 250+ Greatest Rock Guitarists
Influence. I've heard sevaral top 20 guitarists naming Gallagher as an influence.
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