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Game of Thrones
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Author:  corrections [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Forgotten Son wrote:
corrections wrote:
I think the swaggering is perfect. Why are you so opposed to her swaggering?


It's silly, far too over-the-top and makes one of the most badarse moments in the books almost comical. It reminded me a little of the 90s remix video someone posted earlier.

corrections wrote:
So are we sure that's Ramsay Snow? I've seen speculation but no confirmation


I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, but yeah it's definitely Ramsay. His scenes in that episode were an interesting addition as those events weren't directly described in the books.


I don't see how you think it was over the top. I think you'll have to be more specific and describe what was over-the-top.

Author:  Forgotten Son [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Staring directly into the camera with an arrogant look on her face, dropping the whip like a complete bellend. It's hard to describe.

Author:  corrections [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Forgotten Son wrote:
Staring directly into the camera with an arrogant look on her face, dropping the whip like a complete bellend. It's hard to describe.


What was ridiculous about her dropping the whip? As for staring into the camera with an arrogant look on her face that's something that a bajillion GoT characters have done throughout the show and this is where you complain? And I find it interesting that you're laying this entirely on the actor. Why shouldn't she look pleased with herself? She just completely outwitted the sneering masters. Why shouldn't she toss the whip away as if its something distasteful? She found slavery distasteful.

Author:  pink [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Forgotten Son, *SPOILER* Don't you think it was necessary to film the scene in that manner? She just broke the slave trade in the east and created an enemy out of every city in the process. She has no ships, or any means to march her newly formed army to Westeros. She of course doesn't realize any of this yet, which is why I don't have a problem with the way it was filmed. I though it captured her transformation from girl to Queen perfectly - arrogance and all. *SPOILER*

For the non-spoiler version: I agree with you guys.

Author:  Forgotten Son [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

corrections wrote:
What was ridiculous about her dropping the whip?


The way she dropped the whip, not that she dropped the whip. Dropping the whip is a striking symbol. Tossing it aside flamboyantly robs it of some of it's inherent power.

corrections wrote:
As for staring into the camera with an arrogant look on her face that's something that a bajillion GoT characters have done throughout the show and this is where you complain?


You'll have to give me some examples where it not in keeping with the character. I don't actually recall a scene where a character is looking directly at the camera when there's no one being looked at in the edit.

corrections wrote:
And I find it interesting that you're laying this entirely on the actor.


I'm not. The way the end of that scene was composed was cheesy as balls. If anything I think it's likely the director that's most responsible.

corrections wrote:
Why shouldn't she look pleased with herself? She just completely outwitted the sneering masters.


I don't think she shouldn't looked pleased with the accomplishment, I think the way that pleasure was put across was cliche as fuck. Again, I hate to be the person that keeps comparing the show to the books, but it's one of my favourite scenes in the latter and one of my least favourite in the former. In fact Daenerys' scenes are fast becoming my least favourite generally and I want to know how you can fuck up some of the most interesting chapters, to the point where I'd rather be watching Bran or Sansa prat about than the Mother of fucking Dragons kicking arse. Where in the books she undergoes slow, subtle character growth, in the few episodes she's simply become an infallible, stone-hearted queen like someone's flicked a switch.

Now I'm sounding overly critical, which is not my intent. The show is excellent on the whole, with the essence of most characters and events well recreated in the visual medium, and differences being largely understandable. It might be I'm jumping the gun and that this is the result of time and budget constraints. Hopefully she'll return to being the fully rounded human being in forthcoming episodes. I might even be reflecting on her scenes with the benefit of hindsight and judging them negatively based on that. Nevertheless that great scene immediately appears to me to have been ruined by eye-rollingly trite acting/directorial choices, which is particularly painful when it happens to those scenes you most looked forward to being translated to a visual medium. I had a similar reaction to the Hound's breakdown during the siege of Kings Landing.

Author:  Led for your Head [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Change of pace: I haven't read the books, but I know what happens generally (I don't mind spoilers), but I found it interesting that in the show, it looked like Sandor was legit scared when Beric said he would be the one who fights him. I know how it ends, but at this point, I didn't think that Clegane would be ascared of nobody.

Author:  pink [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Led for your Head wrote:
Change of pace: I haven't read the books, but I know what happens generally (I don't mind spoilers), but I found it interesting that in the show, it looked like Sandor was legit scared when Beric said he would be the one who fights him. I know how it ends, but at this point, I didn't think that Clegane would be ascared of nobody.


I think I know why they did that. If you don't mind spoilers I can give you my thoughts.

Author:  Forgotten Son [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

I didn't interpret the Hound's expression as fear so much as surprise, but I'd certainly be interested to read your thoughts.

Author:  monga18 [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Forgotten Son wrote:
corrections wrote:
What was ridiculous about her dropping the whip?


The way she dropped the whip, not that she dropped the whip. Dropping the whip is a striking symbol. Tossing it aside flamboyantly robs it of some of it's inherent power.

corrections wrote:
As for staring into the camera with an arrogant look on her face that's something that a bajillion GoT characters have done throughout the show and this is where you complain?


You'll have to give me some examples where it not in keeping with the character. I don't actually recall a scene where a character is looking directly at the camera when there's no one being looked at in the edit.

corrections wrote:
And I find it interesting that you're laying this entirely on the actor.


I'm not. The way the end of that scene was composed was cheesy as balls. If anything I think it's likely the director that's most responsible.

corrections wrote:
Why shouldn't she look pleased with herself? She just completely outwitted the sneering masters.


I don't think she shouldn't looked pleased with the accomplishment, I think the way that pleasure was put across was cliche as fuck. Again, I hate to be the person that keeps comparing the show to the books, but it's one of my favourite scenes in the latter and one of my least favourite in the former. In fact Daenerys' scenes are fast becoming my least favourite generally and I want to know how you can fuck up some of the most interesting chapters, to the point where I'd rather be watching Bran or Sansa prat about than the Mother of fucking Dragons kicking arse. Where in the books she undergoes slow, subtle character growth, in the few episodes she's simply become an infallible, stone-hearted queen like someone's flicked a switch.

Now I'm sounding overly critical, which is not my intent. The show is excellent on the whole, with the essence of most characters and events well recreated in the visual medium, and differences being largely understandable. It might be I'm jumping the gun and that this is the result of time and budget constraints. Hopefully she'll return to being the fully rounded human being in forthcoming episodes. I might even be reflecting on her scenes with the benefit of hindsight and judging them negatively based on that. Nevertheless that great scene immediately appears to me to have been ruined by eye-rollingly trite acting/directorial choices, which is particularly painful when it happens to those scenes you most looked forward to being translated to a visual medium. I had a similar reaction to the Hound's breakdown during the siege of Kings Landing.


FS are you fucking kidding me with this shit

Author:  Forgotten Son [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Nice contribution there man.

Author:  Led for your Head [ Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

pink wrote:
Led for your Head wrote:
Change of pace: I haven't read the books, but I know what happens generally (I don't mind spoilers), but I found it interesting that in the show, it looked like Sandor was legit scared when Beric said he would be the one who fights him. I know how it ends, but at this point, I didn't think that Clegane would be ascared of nobody.


I think I know why they did that. If you don't mind spoilers I can give you my thoughts.


Please do.

Author:  monga18 [ Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Forgotten Son wrote:
Nice contribution there man.


It was more useful than your nitpicky fanboy horseshit.

Author:  corrections [ Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Forgotten Son wrote:
corrections wrote:
What was ridiculous about her dropping the whip?


The way she dropped the whip, not that she dropped the whip. Dropping the whip is a striking symbol. Tossing it aside flamboyantly robs it of some of it's inherent power.

corrections wrote:
As for staring into the camera with an arrogant look on her face that's something that a bajillion GoT characters have done throughout the show and this is where you complain?


You'll have to give me some examples where it not in keeping with the character. I don't actually recall a scene where a character is looking directly at the camera when there's no one being looked at in the edit.

corrections wrote:
And I find it interesting that you're laying this entirely on the actor.


I'm not. The way the end of that scene was composed was cheesy as balls. If anything I think it's likely the director that's most responsible.

corrections wrote:
Why shouldn't she look pleased with herself? She just completely outwitted the sneering masters.


I don't think she shouldn't looked pleased with the accomplishment, I think the way that pleasure was put across was cliche as fuck. Again, I hate to be the person that keeps comparing the show to the books, but it's one of my favourite scenes in the latter and one of my least favourite in the former. In fact Daenerys' scenes are fast becoming my least favourite generally and I want to know how you can fuck up some of the most interesting chapters, to the point where I'd rather be watching Bran or Sansa prat about than the Mother of fucking Dragons kicking arse. Where in the books she undergoes slow, subtle character growth, in the few episodes she's simply become an infallible, stone-hearted queen like someone's flicked a switch.

Now I'm sounding overly critical, which is not my intent. The show is excellent on the whole, with the essence of most characters and events well recreated in the visual medium, and differences being largely understandable. It might be I'm jumping the gun and that this is the result of time and budget constraints. Hopefully she'll return to being the fully rounded human being in forthcoming episodes. I might even be reflecting on her scenes with the benefit of hindsight and judging them negatively based on that. Nevertheless that great scene immediately appears to me to have been ruined by eye-rollingly trite acting/directorial choices, which is particularly painful when it happens to those scenes you most looked forward to being translated to a visual medium. I had a similar reaction to the Hound's breakdown during the siege of Kings Landing.


I really think the books are handcuffing you. I mean the fact is Martin WROTE the Hound's breakdown in Blackwater. He wrote the whole episode. Think of it this way in the books you get to be inside Dany's head the whole time. So you get to see all of the rounding points. Expecting the TV show to put you inside her head is ridiculous. I think they've done a great job of establishing her humanity. They don't have to keep going back to it but they've done so on the walk of punishment and her scene with the little girl who turned out to be the assassin (which I will admit did rely on the cheesy gimmick). Her compassion continually comes through and I don't know how you don't see it. Now as for the look. She's looking directly into the camera WHICH REPRESENTS HER LOOKING DIRECTLY INTO THE EYES OF THE SLAVER (if I'm thinking of the shot your talking about). I.e. this is what the slaver sees when he's looking at her. If she's looking directly at a person she has nothing but contempt for who she's just outwitted and triumphed over I would expect her to have swagger. The point of the shot and the scene is to establish her growing hard side IN ADDITION to her human side. All things can't be done at once when shooting a show.

Again I don't see how its trite or eyerolling. I read the shot as establishing her pleasure with the accomplishment and her contempt for the masters. That looks a tad arrogant from her but it works perfectly. I also read the whip drop as her throwing it aside with contempt. I'm looking at these purely on the shots themselves with no book knowledge jaundicing my view. I think you really need to consider the two things separately.

Author:  pink [ Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

Led for your Head wrote:
Please do.


*SPOILER* My recollection of the books is not always 100% accurate, but I remember the Hound was either extremely hungover/drunk during the fight. Dondarrion worships the Lord of Light, and always lights his sword on fire before engaging in combat (even in tournaments that predate this event). Sandor's biggest fear is obviously fire, so it makes sense that he would be a little scared to face Dondarrion in his condition. Assuming they don't alter the events of the battle, this will make even more sense after because the Hound's arm catches fire during the fight. *SPOILER*

Author:  Forgotten Son [ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game of Thrones

corrections wrote:
I really think the books are handcuffing you.


You're probably correct. I've read precisely two books for which the film adaptations left me perfectly satisfied.

corrections wrote:
I mean the fact is Martin WROTE the Hound's breakdown in Blackwater. He wrote the whole episode.


He did, which is why I'm a little mystified that he chose to cut, add and change the parts he did. But then he's had experience in writing screenplays, so I guess he knows what plays well in that medium. To me though the story is already established, so I can't help but be disappointed when things are simplified to that extent.

corrections wrote:
Think of it this way in the books you get to be inside Dany's head the whole time. So you get to see all of the rounding points. Expecting the TV show to put you inside her head is ridiculous.


This is a very good point and, thinking on it, I'm not sure it would be very easy to make that scene not come across as cheesy. For that reason.

corrections wrote:
I think they've done a great job of establishing her humanity. They don't have to keep going back to it but they've done so on the walk of punishment and her scene with the little girl who turned out to be the assassin (which I will admit did rely on the cheesy gimmick).


Don't get me wrong, I think her treatment up until the last few episodes have been some of the best in the show. You're quite right in it being wrong to expect the show to continue that without the benefit of being inside her head during such an amazingly kick arse scene. Nonetheless, it's very difficult for me to not react viscerally to the sudden shift in character that is necessitated by time constraints.

corretions wrote:
Now as for the look. She's looking directly into the camera WHICH REPRESENTS HER LOOKING DIRECTLY INTO THE EYES OF THE SLAVER (if I'm thinking of the shot your talking about). I.e. this is what the slaver sees when he's looking at her. If she's looking directly at a person she has nothing but contempt for who she's just outwitted and triumphed over I would expect her to have swagger. The point of the shot and the scene is to establish her growing hard side IN ADDITION to her human side. All things can't be done at once when shooting a show.


I was actually referring to the very end scene in which she's marching on horseback ahead of her new unsullied army. Everything before that was good.

corrections wrote:
I also read the whip drop as her throwing it aside with contempt. I'm looking at these purely on the shots themselves with no book knowledge jaundicing my view. I think you really need to consider the two things separately.


The focus on that symbolism made it a deal too overt IMO.

mona18 wrote:
It was more useful than your nitpicky fanboy horseshit.


Oh, I'm sorry. Would you prefer not to discuss the merits and demerits of the show? Would it be more satisfying if we return to posting once per week with a comment to the effect of "great episode"? That would surely be more interesting.

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