DDD Forum :: View topic - Football (Soccer).

Avery_Island wrote:

so glad watford didnt go up, would have set a horrible precedent. hopefully that loophole will be closed and no one can cheat the way they did this season again.

still staggered they didnt run away with this league though, if they had a half decent manager they no doubt wouldve done.

What is the way that they may have cheated their way into the league? Just wondering since I haven't heard anyone say this, and was curious. Is it with their parent club Udinese and the loan players they brought in? Thats the only thing I can see from just looking at their dealings over the past season.

fecking hell, it was a decent game, but the best match ever? really? :/

Both teams went for it. I don't mean that they were being reckless, because they weren't. Each side played their style, played their strengths believing that their strengths were stronger than the opposition's. leading up we all hoped that each would play their style, as they compliment so awesomely. The game was played at a neck breaking pace pretty much the whole time, with an unbelievable sense of urgency...I loved that because finals, especially, are almost never played that way. Both attacks, and defenses (especially in net), were so strong, that no one at any moment (outside the first 15 minutes) could reasonably pick a winner until the final whistle. How many great attacks were stopped by a great tackle, or save? Enough that we knew it was going to take something special to win the match, and that was certainly a special move from robben. Nothing real flukey, no big controversies, outstanding officiating, and sure, the fact that it was a final really magnifies all of this in my book. I'd say it was a match for the ages.

Just a question for thought.

We all know that the biggest clubs have been the biggest clubs for awhile, and will probably become even more dominant (barca, Bayern and Man U making a joke of their leagues) - but is anyone else surprised that the national powerhouses are still the powerhouses, for the most part?

What im saying is that with countries becoming more developed, the possibility for countries to put more effort into their youth programs expand, and is generally seen as one of the ways to develop a league and a national team; as well as individuals having more time to focus on sports when their lives are more stable.

semi finals
Euro 2012
Portugal Spain Germany Italy
World Cup 2010
Spain Netherlands Germany Uruguay
Euro 2008
Spain Germany Turkey Russia
World Cup 2006
France Italy Germany Portugal
Euro 2004
Czech Portugal Greece Netherlands
World Cup 2002
Germany Brazil Turkey South Korea(straight up matchfixing)
Euro 2000
Italy France Netherlands Portugal

Semis
Germany 5; Portugal 4; Spain 3; Netherlands 3; Italy 3; Turkey 2; France 2; Brazil 1; South Korea 1; Russia 1; Czech 1; Uru 1
Finals - Italy 3; Spain 3; Germany 3; France 2; Portugal 1; Greece 1; Netherlands 1
Wins - Spain 3; Italy 1; France 1; Greece 1; Brazil 1

Obviously the biggest accomplishment in world football, even bigger than porto winning the champions league, is Greece winning the 2004 Euro cup knocking out Portugal, Czech (who are an extremely underrated side), and France. Still incredibly butthurt about 2004 euro and 2006 world cup - I feel if France won one of those, world cup most likely, that we would have been considered one of the best national side generations of all-time.

Maybe we will see the upcoming teams like the Belgiums and the continued Turkish side to make it into that next category of elite teams, but I am just generally surprised by how dominate the big nations still are even with the expansion of economic freedoms and increased development in their league and youth sides.

Author:	The Seeker [ Tue May 28, 2013 11:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Chemical Ali wrote: Avery_Island wrote: so glad watford didnt go up, would have set a horrible precedent. hopefully that loophole will be closed and no one can cheat the way they did this season again. still staggered they didnt run away with this league though, if they had a half decent manager they no doubt wouldve done. What is the way that they may have cheated their way into the league? Just wondering since I haven't heard anyone say this, and was curious. Is it with their parent club Udinese and the loan players they brought in? Thats the only thing I can see from just looking at their dealings over the past season. Watford's problems go back to the illegal transfer of Danny Graham to Swansea in 2011. There were some illegal payments involving a 3rd party. Earlier this year, the owner was banned from involvement in football for 3 years and the club fined put under a transfer embargo until August 31 2013. This is why they had so many loan players. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Watford had won promotion, because the result of the embargo would have been them not been able to sign a single player up until the January Transfer window.

Author:	kosherrock [ Thu May 30, 2013 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Avery_Island wrote: fecking hell, it was a decent game, but the best match ever? really? :/ It's probably the best match I've ever seen for a bunch of reasons.

Author:	Georgi [ Thu May 30, 2013 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
I'd like to hear them. I mean I loved it, it was certainly one of the better European Cup Final games in recent times, but I don't quite hold it in the sway you do. If only it had gone to extra time.

Author:	kosherrock [ Thu May 30, 2013 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Both teams went for it. I don't mean that they were being reckless, because they weren't. Each side played their style, played their strengths believing that their strengths were stronger than the opposition's. leading up we all hoped that each would play their style, as they compliment so awesomely. The game was played at a neck breaking pace pretty much the whole time, with an unbelievable sense of urgency...I loved that because finals, especially, are almost never played that way. Both attacks, and defenses (especially in net), were so strong, that no one at any moment (outside the first 15 minutes) could reasonably pick a winner until the final whistle. How many great attacks were stopped by a great tackle, or save? Enough that we knew it was going to take something special to win the match, and that was certainly a special move from robben. Nothing real flukey, no big controversies, outstanding officiating, and sure, the fact that it was a final really magnifies all of this in my book. I'd say it was a match for the ages.

Author:	Chemical Ali [ Thu May 30, 2013 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Just a question for thought. We all know that the biggest clubs have been the biggest clubs for awhile, and will probably become even more dominant (barca, Bayern and Man U making a joke of their leagues) - but is anyone else surprised that the national powerhouses are still the powerhouses, for the most part? What im saying is that with countries becoming more developed, the possibility for countries to put more effort into their youth programs expand, and is generally seen as one of the ways to develop a league and a national team; as well as individuals having more time to focus on sports when their lives are more stable. semi finals Euro 2012 Portugal Spain Germany Italy World Cup 2010 Spain Netherlands Germany Uruguay Euro 2008 Spain Germany Turkey Russia World Cup 2006 France Italy Germany Portugal Euro 2004 Czech Portugal Greece Netherlands World Cup 2002 Germany Brazil Turkey South Korea(straight up matchfixing) Euro 2000 Italy France Netherlands Portugal Semis Germany 5; Portugal 4; Spain 3; Netherlands 3; Italy 3; Turkey 2; France 2; Brazil 1; South Korea 1; Russia 1; Czech 1; Uru 1 Finals - Italy 3; Spain 3; Germany 3; France 2; Portugal 1; Greece 1; Netherlands 1 Wins - Spain 3; Italy 1; France 1; Greece 1; Brazil 1 Obviously the biggest accomplishment in world football, even bigger than porto winning the champions league, is Greece winning the 2004 Euro cup knocking out Portugal, Czech (who are an extremely underrated side), and France. Still incredibly butthurt about 2004 euro and 2006 world cup - I feel if France won one of those, world cup most likely, that we would have been considered one of the best national side generations of all-time. Maybe we will see the upcoming teams like the Belgiums and the continued Turkish side to make it into that next category of elite teams, but I am just generally surprised by how dominate the big nations still are even with the expansion of economic freedoms and increased development in their league and youth sides.

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Author:	kosherrock [ Thu May 30, 2013 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
I've contemplated this with the MLS a lot, and I am so stoked for the deal that man city and the Yankees struck. Here in the United States, we have this all or nothing mentality, where we can't settle for second place, or be content taking the back seat. After the 02 World Cup, so many big clubs were at the mls' door asking for our top players, and the league said no to every offer! It was ridiculous, they tried to roll the success of the World Cup into the league and our stars had the same shelf life as our Olympians...you know, they're on wheaties boxes and letterman for like a month and then they're relegated to nostalgia, and aren't heard of again until you're playing trivial pursuit or some shit. these emerging nations should focus on academy models, build a reputable feeder league, and don't get so up their own ass about their league competing with the giants that they don't let their talent reach their full potential, and market the shit out of europe's top leagues for what they are: the places where the best football is played. We used to make our talent stay, now we're letting it to to Europe, we encourage it, finally. We're starting to familarize sports fans with top flight football and make that the most popular brand of football, vice the mls. This is why I think the United States will be great within 10 years. Basically, these countries need to focus on maximizing the amount of players getting to europe's top leagues, not trying to build their league to a top flight level.

Author:	Avery_Island [ Fri May 31, 2013 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
kosherrock wrote: Both teams went for it. I don't mean that they were being reckless, because they weren't. Each side played their style, played their strengths believing that their strengths were stronger than the opposition's. leading up we all hoped that each would play their style, as they compliment so awesomely. The game was played at a neck breaking pace pretty much the whole time, with an unbelievable sense of urgency...I loved that because finals, especially, are almost never played that way. Both attacks, and defenses (especially in net), were so strong, that no one at any moment (outside the first 15 minutes) could reasonably pick a winner until the final whistle. How many great attacks were stopped by a great tackle, or save? Enough that we knew it was going to take something special to win the match, and that was certainly a special move from robben. Nothing real flukey, no big controversies, outstanding officiating, and sure, the fact that it was a final really magnifies all of this in my book. I'd say it was a match for the ages. honestly, it was a good game and obviously the size of the match on a worldwide scale helped (but not on a relative scale), but even from a biased point i think even 2 of our own last 3 games of the season i watched against forest and then watford in the play-offs were far better and more dramatic from a neutral point of view (i know im not a neutral and most people wouldnt have watched them - i was just using them as an example o very recent and just as relatively crucial games). but my point is, it was a decent game, but i cant imagine most people would put it in there top 10 games this season, i dont get why just because its a decent wc/cl final it has to be the best ever. other games are just as crucial for their own teams/players and yet tend to get played in a much more attacking style and have far more drama. compare it to the man city vs qpr game a couple of seasons ago whch most people wouldve watched if imagined, which just seemed far better to me. idk, if you enjoyed the game the best, fair enough, i just cant see it myself. it was probably a good 8/10 game for me, but definitely nowhere near the best ive seen this season, let alone ever.

Author:	Jose [ Fri May 31, 2013 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Chemical Ali wrote: Just a question for thought. We all know that the biggest clubs have been the biggest clubs for awhile, and will probably become even more dominant (barca, Bayern and Man U making a joke of their leagues) - but is anyone else surprised that the national powerhouses are still the powerhouses, for the most part? What im saying is that with countries becoming more developed, the possibility for countries to put more effort into their youth programs expand, and is generally seen as one of the ways to develop a league and a national team; as well as individuals having more time to focus on sports when their lives are more stable. semi finals Euro 2012 Portugal Spain Germany Italy World Cup 2010 Spain Netherlands Germany Uruguay Euro 2008 Spain Germany Turkey Russia World Cup 2006 France Italy Germany Portugal Euro 2004 Czech Portugal Greece Netherlands World Cup 2002 Germany Brazil Turkey South Korea(straight up matchfixing) Euro 2000 Italy France Netherlands Portugal Semis Germany 5; Portugal 4; Spain 3; Netherlands 3; Italy 3; Turkey 2; France 2; Brazil 1; South Korea 1; Russia 1; Czech 1; Uru 1 Finals - Italy 3; Spain 3; Germany 3; France 2; Portugal 1; Greece 1; Netherlands 1 Wins - Spain 3; Italy 1; France 1; Greece 1; Brazil 1 Obviously the biggest accomplishment in world football, even bigger than porto winning the champions league, is Greece winning the 2004 Euro cup knocking out Portugal, Czech (who are an extremely underrated side), and France. Still incredibly butthurt about 2004 euro and 2006 world cup - I feel if France won one of those, world cup most likely, that we would have been considered one of the best national side generations of all-time. Maybe we will see the upcoming teams like the Belgiums and the continued Turkish side to make it into that next category of elite teams, but I am just generally surprised by how dominate the big nations still are even with the expansion of economic freedoms and increased development in their league and youth sides. Interesting post. I don't really know what to say about it but i'll have a go. I'm in two minds. On one hand i think what you say will happen more going forwards largely thanks to club sides. Big clubs with the best development programs are getting better and better at finding talent in any corner of the world - where their scouting focus used to be more limited (you can only be in so many places at once). Rise of the internet and globalisation means players from even the most obscure of countries are more visible and able to be spotted by the big clubs... And so much of the development depends on clubs. (e.g. barcelona with messi - argentina benefited from barcelona more than the other way around) On the other hand i think it used to happen more in the 80's and before than it does now. The playing field was more level back then, nobody was spending outrageous money, and that gap probably still hasn't closed up again...

Author:	Chemical Ali [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
I agree both with clubs and national sides. It was more open in the 80s. And even for a bit in the 90s, too.

Author:	Forgotten Son [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
The Bosman ruling is a significant part of the reason why.

Author:	Yousha [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
3 new managers for the top 3 makes next season's EPL very very interesting. More than anything else, I think it's the best chance Wenger's had in a while to try and push just a little harder for something to silence the critics. Also, Liverpool and Spurs are plenty hungry too. My ideal Top 4 would see Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea, but that is really wishful thinking.

Author:	pink [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Mourinho coming back means I'll be watching the epl more often.

Author:	Yousha [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Me too, cause as much as I dislike the guy, I love what he brings to the table. Pellegrini should also provide a lot for City. If United can win the title next season, I'll really hail them as being a phenomenal team. I'll do the same for Barca too actually. I still can't believe we won the Liga this time. We should also really look for a manager, cause a team needs a manager and not one who is hospitalized every month or so. I agree with Cruyff that Vilanova should focus on his health, perhaps become an advisor to Barca, but really, he should not be a first team coach. I'm also obviously excited to see what Neymar can do and whether he lets the pressure become the reason for his downfall. I'm excited to see what Pep can do with Bayern, and whether Jupp chooses to come to Madrid again. So yes, I'm pretty pumped for next season, so say the least.

Author:	pink [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
Neymar going to Barca was a mistake I think. I'm not sure how he is going to fit in at Barca when their system thrives on wing forwards making specific runs to free up Messi. Neymar is used to collecting the ball deep and bringing it up field, with defenders standing off of him. His style of play is way more suited to the likes of Madrid.

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Author:	Jose [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Football (Soccer).
It definitely makes them less dependant on messi. But it's not great work paying 70m for a guy if you can't use him to his fullest.