NBA.

Eric J · **Joined:** Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:07 am **Posts:** 7010

pave wrote:

the "why not?" logic has led to every NBA MVP mistake in history. i just don't like it. there is no reason that Rose should be MVP over LeBron or Kobe or Howard. it doesn't make any sense. he DOES have other all-stars on his team (Boozer). he probably at best is the 8th best player in the league (LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Howard, Dirk, Durant, Paul, Rose).

As George says I don't think post-season success should factor in. I just looked at the stats between the MVPs and "should have been MVPs" in the years you mentioned, granted stats are just stats but statistically speaking it seems like the players that got the MVPs had better years than the other guys.

It doesn't matter how good the players are, it matters who is having the best year. Again I wouldn't give Rose the MVP but you can't say any of those players are having a "better" year, all things considered.

Eric J · **Joined:** Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:07 am **Posts:** 7010

corrections wrote:

Now on to Rose. Thibs is the guy that starts the teams fire and their terrific defense is what is making them a contender not their offense. And Rose has the worst defensive plus/minus splits on the team (even worse than Boozer) so while he is improved he is the weak link still. And the fact of the matter is any case you make for Rose on the "look where the team would be without him" is entirely trumped by the fact that Dirk is even more valuable by that logic (since the Mavs were awful without him and with him the whole year they'd probably be challenging San Antonio for seeding). Second it plays far more in Lebron's favor because Cleveland is legitimately terrible without him. But I don't even think that is the best logic to go by. Who is having the best season is all it should be (obviously winning matters some in this equation because it is tough to have the best season on a non playoff team but in general just best season). I go Howard because of his absolutely game changing D and improved offensive game. I also take Lebron and changing my mind Dirk over Rose. I would have taken Kobe over Rose too before his late season slump/coast job.

According to plus/minus stats Boozer is a better defender than Noah. Only Rondo and Paul are giving up fewer point per 100 possessions than Rose. When you look at plays run directly at Rose, he has a 35.6% scoring rate, which is better than Paul (38.3%) and Rondo (36.3%). He got abused by Andre Miller but other than the other top PGs haven't really had huge games against him. I wouldn't say "look where they'd be without them" so much as "look at all the things he does for them," which an offense is almost everything. Again I'd take Howard over Rose (and maybe Dirk too) but he deserves it more than you're saying.

corrections · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:11 pm **Posts:** 27988

vankush wrote:

corrections wrote:

Now on to Rose. Thibs is the guy that starts the teams fire and their terrific defense is what is making them a contender not their offense. And Rose has the worst defensive plus/minus splits on the team (even worse than Boozer) so while he is improved he is the weak link still. And the fact of the matter is any case you make for Rose on the "look where the team would be without him" is entirely trumped by the fact that Dirk is even more valuable by that logic (since the Mavs were awful without him and with him the whole year they'd probably be challenging San Antonio for seeding). Second it plays far more in Lebron's favor because Cleveland is legitimately terrible without him. But I don't even think that is the best logic to go by. Who is having the best season is all it should be (obviously winning matters some in this equation because it is tough to have the best season on a non playoff team but in general just best season). I go Howard because of his absolutely game changing D and improved offensive game. I also take Lebron and changing my mind Dirk over Rose. I would have taken Kobe over Rose too before his late season slump/coast job.

According to plus/minus stats Boozer is a better defender than Noah. Only Rondo and Paul are giving up fewer point per 100 possessions than Rose. When you look at plays run directly at Rose, he has a 35.6% scoring rate, which is better than Paul (38.3%) and Rondo (36.3%). He got abused by Andre Miller but other than the other top PGs haven't really had huge games against him. I wouldn't say "look where they'd be without them" so much as "look at all the things he does for them," which an offense is almost everything. Again I'd take Howard over Rose (and maybe Dirk too) but he deserves it more than you're saying.

A. Direct defense is only part of the job. B. The point guards in the East are much weaker as a group than in the West. C. These type of stats are really hard to trust because charting in basketball is in its infant stages.

pgm · **Posted:** Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:21 am

If the Lakers and Mavs end with the same record, what's the tie breaker?

jumpman8828 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:17 am

LA would get the tiebreaker since they're first in their division

corrections · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:11 pm **Posts:** 27988

Well looks like I was right about Denver hanging on. Even I didn't think they would be able to put together something this good. I'm so grateful Dallas is going to avoid them in the first round. Other than Memphis no potential match scares me more. Who would have thought that subtracting Carmelo would produce such a fun Suns like attack. They're going to be very dangerous. While losing a player like Carmelo never gets you exactly equal value I think they got as close as you can get.

jumpman8828 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:03 pm

I'm so amazed at how valuable Jason Kidd can be while being completely worthless as a scorer

corrections · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:11 pm **Posts:** 27988

jumpman8828 wrote:

I'm so amazed at how valuable Jason Kidd can be while being completely worthless as a scorer

He has developed a pretty good set 3 pointer but yeah agreed.

batman · **Posted:** Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:00 am

Nicolas Batum!

boo boo · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:36 am

I was getting interested in the sport, but I'm disowning it because I remembered how despicable sports fans are without exception and I would kill myself before becoming one of them.

lonewolf371 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:05 am **Posts:** 4166

Cool story bro.

Come on Kansas/UNC. Save lonewolf's bracket!

corrections · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:11 pm **Posts:** 27988

lonewolf371 wrote:

Cool story bro.

Come on Kansas/UNC. Save lonewolf's bracket!

Haven't you already won since everyone else is devastated? Btw this is the NBA thread.

batman · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:16 pm

I'm not sure if anyone will find this funny but me, but Blazers' color commentator Mike Rice (the only commentator to ever get ejected from a game) is so unpredictable. Here he is shouting at a ref directly, not even as part of the broadcast.

talking directly to an official

My favorite quote from him ever was when a kid was mopping up a spot on the court, and he says "I guess one of those drunk Laker fans must have thrown up on the court."

lonewolf371 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:05 am **Posts:** 4166

corrections wrote:

lonewolf371 wrote:

Cool story bro.

Come on Kansas/UNC. Save lonewolf's bracket!

Haven't you already won since everyone else is devastated? Btw this is the NBA thread.

A little out of place, I suppose.

clarksided · **Joined:** Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:06 pm **Posts:** 1912

batman wrote:

I'm not sure if anyone will find this funny but me, but Blazers' color commentator Mike Rice (the only commentator to ever get ejected from a game) is so unpredictable. Here he is shouting at a ref directly, not even as part of the broadcast.

talking directly to an official

My favorite quote from him ever was when a kid was mopping up a spot on the court, and he says "I guess one of those drunk Laker fans must have thrown up on the court."

I like watching Celtics games on league pass because Heinson loses all perspective and just starts shouting what basically amounts to the average post you'd find by an angry fan on an internet message board. It's hilarious.

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