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| Author: | Jess [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
corrections wrote: kosherrock wrote: corrections wrote: Oh he was the handball guy? I love him even more (I'm completely and firmly in the camp when we had this argument last time that the handball was both the right play there and not morally questionable in the least) how? that doesn't line up with any of your line of thinking that i've seen you share on this forum, pete. i just don't understand how you don't see a problem with someone flagrantly cheating someone in the realm of sport. It is no different from a guy covering a puck in the crease (or even better a guy hauling someone down on a breakaway in hockey), a deliberate foul in basketball, or a deliberate pass interference penalty. There is an established penalty for those things and you agree to take it when you cheat (and in his case it is ejection plus penalty kick which is a huge sanction appropriate to the opportunity denied). I do not accept that he should just let the goal in as I wouldn't accept it in these other circumstances. The only penalties I view as worthy of opprobrium are those that are unsafe or carry greater injury potential. it's the fact that the ball was going in and uruguay ends up benefitting from suarez breaking the rule. it's not like PI unless you level the receiver in the end zone before the ball arrives. it's not like a deliberate foul because you don't know if the player will make the basket, and a score in soccer is much more valuable then a score in basketball so the stakes aren't comparable at all. i mean i don't think suarez was like immoral but it's still bullshit and i wouldn't call it the "right play". i posted a couple analogies in a post above. goaltending rules are analogous more than types of fouls. your situations would be analogous to a player with a breakaway getting dragged down from behind by his shirt or something as he's about to take a shot one on one with the goalie. you don't know if he'd make the shot, but you still prevent it from ever occurring. plus, deliberate fouls in basketball are just part of the game's strategy. lunging to punch a ball out of the net in soccer is not part of the game. it's relative and subjective, but unless you think defenders in general should always do that as like a de facto way to defend sure goals and it should be incorporated into standard soccer strategy, then it's not analogous at all. |
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| Author: | Paulie [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
wantabodylikeme wrote: yeah kosh stop being a suar loser lost my shit |
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| Author: | Anpass [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
which is worse? an intentional goal stopping handball inside the box or an intentional dive inside the box? ![]() or rainforest deforestation? |
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| Author: | Jose [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
Hang wrote: actually, Im not even sure cunt is the right word. Like, he's a psychopath and not in the way that that word gets thrown around, he's a straight up crazy. Crazy, passionate and mesmerising. For me Suarez is the most entertaining player in the game by far. I have huge respect for responsible role model type players like beckham, but I can't help but love the barrel of crazy that is Suarez. |
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| Author: | Jose [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
Almost everything in soccer is cheating. Defenders foul players on purpose at set pieces, people lay tackles to prevent a breakaway, people commit red card offences all the time. Diving annoys me more because its piss weak, but its just another of many ways players cheat to get a competitive advantage. |
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| Author: | corrections [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
Jess wrote: kosherrock wrote: corrections wrote: Oh he was the handball guy? I love him even more (I'm completely and firmly in the camp when we had this argument last time that the handball was both the right play there and not morally questionable in the least) how? that doesn't line up with any of your line of thinking that i've seen you share on this forum, pete. i just don't understand how you don't see a problem with someone flagrantly cheating someone in the realm of sport. soccer needs a goaltending rule like in basketball. it's utterly fucking stupid that uruguay could have a net positive gain from suarez cheating. i'm trying to think of some other sports analogies to what he did: an american football player running down the sideline for the winning touchdown with no one else ahead of him, so he's going to score, but then someone on the sideline runs onto the field and tackles him. oops, no touchdown! though i think there's a rule where that's actually rewarded with 6 points anyways. let's assume there isn't. according to pete's logic, would that guy be making the right play and just doing what it takes to win? or if basketball had goaltending, except instead of getting the points you just inbound the ball and the goaltender gets a foul or something. then like dwight howard sticks his hand up through the net to punch out a game winning 3-pointer at the buzzer. no basket, and there's no time to inbounds for another shot so you lose even though the ball was literally passing through the rim. but that was the right play? That's rewarded with 6 points in football. But I've got your analogy. A horse collar tackle on an opponent breaking in the clear stopping a TD. Dangerous play and obvious foul but there is a net gain. Same thing with fouling a guy to prevent him from scoring. Same thing with hauling down a player on a breakaway in hockey. |
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| Author: | corrections [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
Two Headed Boy wrote: In hockey, when the goalie is pulled, a hauled down player on a breakaway is just given the goal that he clearly would score. A breakaway without the goalie pulled is nowhere near a sure goal, which Suarez prevented. Then use my hauling down a guy about to scored with an illegal play in football (horsecollar being the most common). |
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| Author: | Anpass [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
a horsecollar can get you ejected. |
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| Author: | corrections [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
Krym wrote: a horsecollar can get you ejected. It can (though usually doesn't) but so does the handball in that circumstance. |
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| Author: | Anpass [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
a horse-collar tackle, anywhere on the field, can get you ejected, even if your side has not a chance in hell of winning. it is like a head butt, but worse, i suspect. the line of scrimmage being the exception. |
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| Author: | pink [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
I hate being at work during the games. Updating the gamecast every few minutes is nerve wracking. |
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| Author: | Hang [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
pink wrote: I hate being at work during the games. Updating the gamecast every few minutes is nerve wracking. Don't worry, mate. They're controlling the game playing exactly like Italy usually play aka awfully. |
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| Author: | kosherrock [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
corrections wrote: Two Headed Boy wrote: In hockey, when the goalie is pulled, a hauled down player on a breakaway is just given the goal that he clearly would score. A breakaway without the goalie pulled is nowhere near a sure goal, which Suarez prevented. Then use my hauling down a guy about to scored with an illegal play in football (horsecollar being the most common). and you think that's the right thing to do? |
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| Author: | monga18 [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
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| Author: | Forgotten Son [ Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2014 World Cup (Brasil) |
Jose wrote: Hang wrote: actually, Im not even sure cunt is the right word. Like, he's a psychopath and not in the way that that word gets thrown around, he's a straight up crazy. Crazy, passionate and mesmerising. For me Suarez is the most entertaining player in the game by far. I have huge respect for responsible role model type players like beckham, but I can't help but love the barrel of crazy that is Suarez. Apparently he's a really nice guy off the pitch. Of course that doesn't stop me from thinking he's a vile, cheating, show-off cunt, or from hoping he gets hobbled in Uruguay's next game before they crash out of the World Cup having conceded 3 beautifully taken Pirlo free kicks. I detest few players more than Suarez. |
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