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100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=679		 Page 144 of 177
Author:  pave [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
if you think that "some players play worse on new teams" and "some players play better on new teams" proves me wrong, you are completely opposite. under your idea, they should play the same regardless. under my philosophy, both outcomes are equally possible.


jesus, I'm saying "my philosophy" now, as if basic human psychology is now up for debate. i fucking hate you so goddamn much
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
pave wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Juan Soto refused to sign with Washington this season and demanded a trade. His stats with Washington are far better than his stats have been since the trade to San Diego. Are you gonna claim that this motivation thing only works in basketball?

SOTO STATS 2022
NATIONALS OPS .894 - 21 HR in 342 AB
PADRES......OPS .804 - 5 HR in 156 AB



no, why would I? but motivation isn't the only thing. we see players in every sport have a tough time adapting to new teams, even when they wanted to go there. sometimes it works really quickly, sometimes it doesn't. why is that, you say?

because... these are human beings not robots you total fucking dipshit

i really don't mean to get so angry at someone, its just that you bring this out of me so easily and i hate you and i just see no reason to hide it. :tiphat:


Sometimes it works quickly, sometimes it doesn't. Nothing to do with emotion. It's just random chance in a small sample size. Sometimes a guys shoots 2 for 12, and sometimes a guy shoots 10 for 12. Given enough shots and enough games a guy will eventually get back to his normal established level of play over the course of enough games, unless he's just losing it because he's too old or something.

I guess you think that emotions are so important because they are in your case. I suggest that something is wrong inside you if an internet discussion about basketball can make you get so angry at someone you've never even met or spoken to. Get some help.
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
pave wrote:
if you think that "some players play worse on new teams" and "some players play better on new teams" proves me wrong, you are completely opposite. under your idea, they should play the same regardless. under my philosophy, both outcomes are equally possible.


jesus, I'm saying "my philosophy" now, as if basic human psychology is now up for debate. i fucking hate you so goddamn much


After a big enough sample Wilt was playing almost exactly at the same level on the Sixers as he did on the Warriors. His level of play only dropped when he got into his thirties and beyond, like it does with almost every athlete in every sport.
Author:  pave [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Bruce wrote:
I suggest that something is wrong inside you if an internet discussion about basketball can make you get so angry at someone you've never even met or spoken to.


well when you're right, you're right. bye now! :tiphat:
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Tim Duncan had more of his shots blocked than any other player since the NBA started tracking play-by-play stats in 1996-97. Duncan was blocked 1,483 times. The most blocks that any one player had against Duncan was Kevin Garnett with 33.
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
“On a summer day in the early 1980s, when Brown was coaching at UCLA, Chamberlain showed up at Pauley Pavilion to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. Magic Johnson used to run the games, and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt.”

“So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one [of Johnson's] shots get to the rim. Chamberlain would have been in his mid-40s at the time, and he remained in top physical shape.”
- Larry Brown
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Author:  Tim [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
^Checkmate, Russellheads.
Author:  Bruce [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
The 1964 Celtics won 59 games and were awarded 62.6 Win Shares.

Bill Russell - 17.3
John Havlicek - 7.7
K.C. Jones - 5.8
Sam Jones - 8.9
Tom Sanders - 7.6
Tom Heinsohn - 6.2
Willie Naulls - 3.9
Frank Ramsey - 3.2
Jim Loscutoff - 0.0
Clyde Lovellette - 1.3
Larry Siegfried 0.5
Johnny McCarthy - 0.5

The 1964 Warriors won 48 games and were awarded 54.1 win shares. That's because they were expected to win 53 gams based on their point differential, but only won 48.


Wilt Chamberlain - 25.0
Guy Rodgers - 4.0
Wayne Hightower - 4.0
Tom Meschery - 7.5
Gary Phillips - 1.7
Nate Thurmond - 3.5
Al Attles - 5.3
Gary Hill - 0.6
George Lee - 0.6
Kenny Sears - 1.8
John Windsor - 0.1

Despite Russell being 7.7 win shares behind Chamberlain, the Russell guys here claim that Russell was better than Chamberlain. So I ask these Russell guys, what is win shares doing wrong here? Are they overrating the contributions from Russell's teammates, or underrating the contributions of Wilt's teammates? The totals for each team are within expected range, so if Russell was truly better than Chamberlain they are somehow missing it with their formulas.

According to your guys, if Win Shares was accurate, Russell should be rated higher than Wilt, so which is it?

Or could it be that the 3 or 4 other hall of famers on the Celtics had more to do with why they won so much than you realize when you want to give all that credit for winning titles to Russell to make him seem better than Chamberlain.

Without Russell the Celtics had 45.3 win shares. Without Wilt the Warriors have 29.1 win shares. That's quite a difference.

If these 2 teams swapped Russell for Chamberlain do you claim that the Warriors would have won more games than the Celtics, since Russell is better than Chamberlain?

You guys have your heads SO FAR UP YOUR ASSES that it's fucking shocking. Chamberlain was far better than Russell and just did not have good enough players on his team like Russell did, until he left the Warriors.
Author:  pave [ Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Tl;dr winshares is a silly thing
Author:  Bruce [ Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
pave wrote:
Tl;dr winshares is a silly thing


If they matched with your subjective opinions you'd love them. You think they are silly because they disprove many of your opinions, such as Russell and Chamberlain.
Author:  Bruce [ Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
ManPerson wrote:
Here are my top players by position (put in tiers)


I'm working on my version of this. It's going to based on value, both career value and peak value, and include credit for level of play in the playoffs. Can't do overall value in the playoffs because that is very dependent on how many games each player played, so it's unfair to early guys when their were not many rounds, and also to players who were not on great teams.

If guys stopped playing to play baseball, or because they had HIV, or got injured, or retired young, they will not rank as high as expected. Michael Jordan accumulates no basketball value while he is hitting .210 in AA baseball.

Guys are not gonna like what I post when I am finished.
Author:  Bruce [ Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Do you guys know, who has the most career offensive rebounds among guards?
Author:  Tim [ Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 100 Greatest NBA Basketball Players
Is the implication that Jordan won't be #1 on shooting guards list?
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