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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
StuBass wrote: Re Odum...I'd say that Odum was James Browns signature bassist, although James fired and hired a lot of musicians and had some real good bassists in the mix. Aye. If he was James' main dude he'll probably need to be raised on this list StuBass wrote: Check Babbitts discography on his website. In addition to his body of work at Motown, he had some terrific perofrmances for artists as diverse as Barry Manilow, Elton John, The Spinners, etc. Talk about versatility! Indeed! StuBass wrote: I met Tony Newton, as I said, down at Smokeys house when I was about 14. I'd see him around a lot. He had an interest in a music store in Northwest Detroit. He had a guitar company come out with a signature "Newton" bass. When I was looking to upgrade from my first electric...a Kent, Tony tried to convince me to get a Newton. I considered it, but wisely opted for the Fender Jazz bass. When they formed The 8TH Day, I ran into Tony and he told me about his band. He just got a house in an upscale neighborhood and invited me to come over and his whole band was there...sort of like a hippie commune. When I moved to L.A. I ran into him and as I said...he offered to let me record a new demo tape at his apartment...I was working as a radio newscaster at the time. I was driving him nuts trying to get out a solid demo tape. Probably reminded him of some of the Motown producers doing 40 takes... Actually this is the first time I've heard any of this! Awesome, really awesome stuff though, probably the best of your stories so far (aside from seeing Jamerson in a club that is!). Man you ran into some cool people back in the day, Jamerson, Newton, the Pistons, word. Did the demo tape ever get done acceptably? Lol |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
D.J. wrote: Negative Creep wrote: Stu, I agree on James Brown. There's an episode of The Cosby Show where Cliff puts on a live version of "I Got The Feeling".....and man the bass on there is just SMOKIN'! The groove he had going on was just indescribably fucking killer. The only problem is I don't know who it was.... Haha I remember that episode! [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBsuwtm8180[/youtube] Haha you Brits watched the Cosby show too? And man that's some smokin' bass indeed, word. I'm glad you mentioned this stuff Neg, first time I"ve really paid attention to Odum, man he's groovy, my my |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
D.J. wrote: Ariel, what's wrong with Deacon at 18/19? we are talking about one of the greatest bassline creators and a wonderful bassist indeed while his playing in an enourmos band like Queen give him a lot of influence too. About Lesh vs Casady I tend to prefer Jack's work and playing, in terms of greatness they are really close though but again I don't think they are greater of the likes of Deacon or Harris (I'm still not sure about Hamm too). Deacon doesn't have enough influence on his own, or innovation quite, despite his out of this world creativity and very respectable versatility. Lesh and Casady are both more innovative and influential, and both are also very creative. They're also both more important as individuals in the history of rock bass. I suspect I'll put Lesh one spot before Casady as a temporary thing pending learning more about the two, if only because I suspect the Dead's much bigger listenership and reach/popularity than the Airplane probably means more influence for Phil (but I could be totally wrong) FWIW if this were a talent/creativity list Deacon would be top 10 in rock. |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
*deletes Machine Head post* Take that shit somewhere else dude |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
StuBass wrote: Negative Creep wrote: Any other great bass lines from Odum besides I Got The Feeling? "Papas Got A Brand New Bag" is Odum...terrific groove. My alltime favorite James Brown bassline is Tim Drummond on "Licking Stick". Check that one out. Man that Odum has Babbitt level god groove. My my, this is nuts Was gonna mention JB's drummer too, MAN what a talented guy, one of us needs to go pester CRJ about him sometime lol |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Negative Creep wrote: I will definitely check it out Stu. In the meantime, how about Lee Dorman from Iron Butterfly? Sooooo underrated... Haha go figure, just heard In A Gadda Da Vida earlier tonight on Pandora and went word this a creative bassist, wow. Between that and this one you're posting, gonna add him to the 'possibles' list next time I post it, word. Nice find Gotta respect your encyclopedic knowledge & love of heavy psychedelia lol Neg...and my is that Iron Butterfly theme amazing, wow. First album? |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Ssoyd wrote: Negative Creep wrote: Is that the first thing you've heard from Iron Butterfly? Aside from "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida"? I don't know if I'd call them a metal band, though some do consider them 'proto-metal'. What we now call Metal didn't exist in those days. Bands that played this kind of music were simply called "Heavy" or "Hard Rock". By the Early 70's the term Heavy Metal began to be used to describe bands as diverse as Iron Butterfly, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and Deep Purple. Eventually the Riff driven massive chord (and not Blues based) music of Black Sabbath had the most influence and followers spawning bands like Uriah Heep, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Motorhead which evolved into what today is referred to as Heavy Metal or just Metal. YES. THANK YOU. YOU GET IT. (Sorry, I'm allergic to people who don't get metal and confuse it with hard rock or other genres like post hardcore) |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
StuBass wrote: It's really difficult to objectively judge Aston Barrett as a bassist since there's so few other well known Reggae bassists to compare him to. Barrett did set the tone for that style, but Reggae is often quite repetitive in nature, although the timing in that music form can be quite challenging...unless that's all you play, which seems to be the case with Barrett. When I was in Jamaica last year I caught a few reggae bands and the bass parts, once you get past the odd rhythm structures, all seemed relatively simple and supportive. Obviously, Barrett lacks versatility, and I'd have to say that he's probably the second best Jamaican bassist...behind Phil Chen. This is very well observed. Behind Phil Chen huh? hahaha (I totally believe you though, I need to check Phil out more) Been reading about Aston and reggae bassists. Apparently he's the big dude, with Robbie Shakespeare being the other one everyone talks about a lot (anyone familiar w that dude?). Actually very impressed with Fams' (Aston) playing, his feel and tone are both out of this world, as good as anyone I've ever heard tbh. Thinking I'll give him spot 24 on this list as a temporary fix pending learning more since obviously his influence is astronomical and I'd say he's very creative too (mostly due to feel/tone). |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Negative Creep wrote: Ariel wrote: That was just epic. I'm actually not so sure that Harris is more creative, after watching that. This guy has an amazing melodic sense on the instrument. Ahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahhaah This is ONE POST after you declared Steve this one of a kind creative genius hahahaha Actually to be honest I think Steve takes creativity over Stu pretty clearly. It's very, very easy to confuse having a deep repertoire of scales, arpeggios and intervals, plus a lot of technical skill, for creativity, almost everyone makes that confusion (including me until fairly recently). The truth is Stu's playing just isn't as distinctive or hard to imitate as Steve's imo...that's my hunch/feeling anyway |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Thu May 03, 2012 11:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Impressed by Thomas Miller at this point, thanks for posting/mentioning noteworthy bass songs. How does Lepond compare? |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Fri May 04, 2012 12:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Ssoyd wrote: Negative Creep wrote: Ssoyd wrote: I agree. There's no doubt in my mind that Hamm is more creative than Harris. Yeah, I'm not sure about the other areas of the criteria though. Me either. Some of the criteria are a bit difficult to determine unless there is an obvious difference. Influence for example. I'm sure that Harris has influence over a greater number of players due to playing in a well known band but I suspect Hamm may have more influence over the best "virtuoso" bass players. Hamm is at best the second most influential new/contemporary bass 'virtuoso' in rock, after at least Sheehan, who is much more creative and has a more distinctive style/more distinctive bass influence. (Mind you I think Hamm is outstanding, he's easy top 20 in creativity in rock imo) Hamm's shtick wasn't as original as Sheehan's either. His (Hamm's) big thing from what I can tell (and I've listened to a lot of Hamm) was continuing to move tapping forward artistically, and also continuing to cement the idea of multiple melodic voice bass solos/compositions. Very important stuff but I don't think he came up with any of this, rather helped continue to popularize it in the '90s and '00s after other players did it first. The bass 'virtuoso' genre and style of playing/approach to playing was really an invention of Jaco, Clarke, Berlin and Sheehan. Jaco, Clarke and Sheehan have the lion's share of the influence for being there first and/or for having distinctive styles/approaches that were widely taken after and were widely inspirational. Of course Hamm has also been very influential in just helping popularize the virtuoso style/approach/repertoire in rock, but bear in mind if you take listeners in general and don't arbitrarily limit to rock bassists the main guy is probably Wooten who's basically a better Hamm: crazy tapping, multiple melodic voices solos and bass compositions, etc. Therefore it's really Jaco, Clarke, Wooten and Sheehan who are the main dogs among electric bass virtuosos in terms of inventing that style and popularizing it and being the most noteworthy player. Hamm is at best 5th place after those 4. He's still amazing but a lot of his influence is him helping popularize stuff some of those other guys did, I suspect. And just about anyone who listens to Hamm will also listen to/be familiar with Wooten, etc., and be just as influenced by them. What does all this mean? It means Hamm's influence is really shared influence with several other guys (whether those guys are rock guys or not isn't really relevant for this list and for assessing Hamm by these criteria); he's not as innovative as he might seem. His technique is immaculate either way though and he's highly creative, and I do believe he probably did help push the bass virtuoso style forward and push tapping and multiple voices bass playing forward, so he does get pretty significant innovation points, just not as significant as one might be tempted to assume. So all things said... Hamm v Harris Influence Harris (this isn't up for debate, nor is it particularly close between these two) Innovation Harris Tech skill Hamm easily but least important criterion and Harris is still very skilled Creativity let's say Hamm for the sake of loading the criteria in his favor for the sake of argument Versatility Hamm Throw in intangibles and Hamm still loses even if he wins the creativity criterion. He's just not as important in the history of rock bass, period |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Fri May 04, 2012 12:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Ssoyd wrote: Wishbone Ash was one of my favorite bands from the 70's and I always liked the bass playing of Martin Turner. Turner was a founding member. They also pioneered the twin guitar sound that became popular later on. I particularly like their Argus album. One of the best rock albums ever imo Oh and Neg when Stu and Ssoyd both endorse a bass performance you know it's good haha |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Fri May 04, 2012 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Oh and you guys want an underrated/unfairly obscure classic rock era band? http://www.myspace.com/seventyfivemusic/ |
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| Author: | Rickymaivia [ Fri May 04, 2012 5:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Ariel wrote: D.J. wrote: Ariel, what's wrong with Deacon at 18/19? we are talking about one of the greatest bassline creators and a wonderful bassist indeed while his playing in an enourmos band like Queen give him a lot of influence too. About Lesh vs Casady I tend to prefer Jack's work and playing, in terms of greatness they are really close though but again I don't think they are greater of the likes of Deacon or Harris (I'm still not sure about Hamm too). Deacon doesn't have enough influence on his own, or innovation quite, despite his out of this world creativity and very respectable versatility. Lesh and Casady are both more innovative and influential, and both are also very creative. They're also both more important as individuals in the history of rock bass. I suspect I'll put Lesh one spot before Casady as a temporary thing pending learning more about the two, if only because I suspect the Dead's much bigger listenership and reach/popularity than the Airplane probably means more influence for Phil (but I could be totally wrong) FWIW if this were a talent/creativity list Deacon would be top 10 in rock. I'm sorry Ariel but what made Lesh and Casady more innovative, influential and important in the history of rock bass of Deacon? Deacon's body of work could easily contain easily five or more great basslines in the top 50 rock greatest basslines ever, he's famous for his walking bass lines, his fast bass runs and and quick note changes which made his style playing so unique and recognizable. Anyway I totally agree about the talent and creativity thing. |
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| Author: | Rickymaivia [ Fri May 04, 2012 5:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Rock Bass Guitarists |
Any news about Saunders and Flowers embracing the top 100? |
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