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150 Greatest Rock Drummers
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Author:  Classic Rock Junkie [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
ariel wrote:
mrsamtotheg wrote:
i agree bruford would mop neil peart, brufords heart of the sunrise is some of the greatest drumming I ever heard and I am a jazz guy, his rolls are clean, his linear FILLS are smooth and innovative, his dynamics perfect, and he has an ability to know when to lay off the kit , he never over drums , he definately would win against peart.


Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Either I'm completely retarded or Peart has never touched Heart of the Sunrise, or for that matter the Red album or the Discipline album


Peart hasn't touched the dust on Brufords feet. They are astronomically far apart. Especially in musicianship. It would be like comparing Pridgen to Colaiuta (placement wise), yeah they are 13 places apart in the skill list but the gap between them in musicianship, skill, and just playing in general is astronomic as well. Peart is nowhere near the player Bruford ever was. Peart is a great drummer, but Bruford is up there in my god list, Peart is in my masters list. There is a difference.

Bruford is the clear number 1 because although he loses in Influence to Peart, he takes skill, versatility, and I'd give him originality. If we tie them in creativity (Peart cannot win in that, they tie if anything, both are extremely creative), like always it comes down to innovation. Sure Peart made the 'roto-toms' and innovated tons of equipment, but Brufords massive innovation with the kit as a whole, used of dynamics in playing, all the insane uses of poly rhythms, time signatures, and rudiments never used in rock to that degree, mixed with his massive creativity and innovation with the electric drum sets (though I always prefer acoustic) I think give him a clear lead in innovation. We have Jeff Beck at number 2 in the guitarists thread, when any other list wouldn't have him that high, he's another nearly publically unpopular god of the instrument, and hear we give him his dues for what he does. Bruford is not well known by non-drummers and non-prog music fans, or the general music public, but he is the most superb drummer in rock history, not for influence, but as a DRUMMER. And I think he deserves number 1 for just that. This is a greatest drummers list, not most influential. It's not most skilled either. It's all around, and I think it's nearly undeniable that Bruford is the best drummer all around that graced the rock genre. Bohnam is the most influential, Moon is arguably the most original and very creative, and Baker is arguably one of the most innovative. Bruford is the best all around, and arguably the most skilled. Peart has a max in nothing except being great all around, which Bruford takes to another level.


Why is he not 1 yet Jew? Why?
Author:  Ariel [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
That's probably the best post I've ever read in a forum. I'm not kidding. It's up there.

I'm SO glad I'm not the only one who 'gets' Bruford...I could just tell there was something SPECIAL about him that NO other drummer has ever had, when my dad used to play the Fragile album in the car when I was younger. I've heard most of the 'great' famous rock drummers since then and that opinion still stands.
Author:  Ariel [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
The other guy who seems to often get compared to Bruford and it infuriates me due to their VAST difference in creativity and individuality/originality is Mike Portnoy, even though I like the dude's playing
Author:  Ariel [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
And FWIW I don't think Jew posts here anymore...?

I've been thinking for a while CRJ that we should just nominate you as new drum forum head
Author:  mrsamtotheg [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
ariel wrote:
That's probably the best post I've ever read in a forum. I'm not kidding. It's up there.

I'm SO glad I'm not the only one who 'gets' Bruford...I could just tell there was something SPECIAL about him that NO other drummer has ever had, when my dad used to play the Fragile album in the car when I was younger. I've heard most of the 'great' famous rock drummers since then and that opinion still stands.



you cant rate him against rock drummers , he has to go against guys like gadd who I think still beats bruford, and tony williams beats bruford, joe morello, max roach, elvin jones etc, hmm see I dont see any rock drummer touching him it would be a blowout, I like rock drummers too before any one thinks otherwise, I get down on paice, and mitch mitchell, ginger baker, john denshmore, and I have heard alot bonham , bill ward, keith moon, and some peart .
Author:  Gray [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
This list is for only rock drummers.
Author:  mrsamtotheg [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
a_man_named_gray wrote:
This list is for only rock drummers.


I know that what I am saying is I dont think he has competition on the rock drummer page, brufords only competition in my opinion are the jazzers ,fusion guys, in fact his playing reminds me alot of fusion thats why I like him so much.
Author:  Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
I agree that Bruford can't be compared with other rock drummers since he's that far ahead, and that Williams and Gadd are better drummers, they fit in that same category of multi genre drummers like Bruford that are so capable in many different styles and with tons of skill. As I said before, Williams and Gadd are my all time favorite drummers next to Bruford, but they are definitely better drummers. However in rock, there is no drummer near the versatility and mastery of Bruford.
Author:  Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
mrsamtotheg wrote:
you cant rate him against rock drummers , he has to go against guys like gadd who I think still beats bruford, and tony williams beats bruford, joe morello, max roach, elvin jones etc, hmm see I dont see any rock drummer touching him it would be a blowout, I like rock drummers too before any one thinks otherwise, I get down on paice, and mitch mitchell, ginger baker, john denshmore, and I have heard alot bonham , bill ward, keith moon, and some peart .


John Densmore is vastly underrated here. He was more than competent at Jazz playing and had quite some skill he developed later on in his career, and he is one of the only drummers in major rock bands to consider exploring his ability and developing a style long after the collapse of The Doors. He worked with some very strange and avant garde required playing as well. Not saying he's a great jazz drummer, but he is a rock drummer who can play pure jazz


I'm sure I posted this before, watch the whole thing, it's extremely impressive considering the image of Densmore, also, I've heard it was all improv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ9_e-In ... ure=relmfu

very creative, very few general rock drummers I know could do that. His groove at 5:50 is amazing, and his ability to play multiple styles is evident. He's also quite good with both grips.
Author:  Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Also, anyone think Lombardo should move to 12 and Carey and Ringo move to 10-11? Just due to the breakdown, here's what I see, we can go into more detail later if necessary:

Lombardo vs. Carey:
Influence worth 2
Innovation worth 1.5 (according to The Jew)

Influence: Lombardo
Innovation: Lombardo
Creativity: Carey
Originality: Carey or tie
Skill: Carey
Versatility: Carey

3.5 for Lombardo, 4 for Carey


Lombardo vs. Ringo:

Influence: Ringo
Creativity: Ringo
Innovation: Ringo or tie (match grip vs. Double bass....hard choice but I'd go grip since it is more important than double bass)
Originality: Tie
Versatility: Ringo
Skill: Lombardo

6.5 for Ringo (assuming all ties) and 3.5 for Lombardo. No ties 5.5 for Ringo vs. 2 for Lombardo.

Thoughts? I can go into more detail over why I chose a certain aspect if necessary. Ringo and Lombardo's ties are really hard to choose if they are or aren't, but either way how I see it Ringo wins. Carey vs. Ringo would result in the same out come as Lombardo vs. Carey since they win the same categories so it would end up going:

10. Carey
11. Ringo
12. Lombardo
13. Portnoy
Author:  Human [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
I think for Lombardo / Carey, Originality would be a tie, making it 3.5 for Lombardo and 3 for Carey.

I'd change it to:
Ringo, Lombardo, Carey personally...

Lombardo/Ringo

Influence: I'd think Lombardo would win DIRECT influence by a slim margin, and Ringo would win in popularity by a lot. Overall... still ringo.
Creativity: If you say so, I'd say it's a tie if anything.
Innovation: Did Ringo really innovate playing with match grip? I find that pretty hard to believe, you'd think it would have been around much longer than the 60s.
Originality: Okay, now you're just being intentionally incredulous. Lombardo wins this one.
Versatility: Tie or ringo. Neither are really all that versatile. Dave played a few metal subgenres, and Ringo played a few rock subgenres, but Fantomas had a lot of similarities to Slayer while Dave was there. I'd say a tie.
Skill: Yeah obviously. (Dave.)
Author:  Ariel [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
There's no question Ringo is more versatile than Lombardo
Author:  Human [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Neither are versatile, of course there is. Bug Juice is a farther venture from Dave's norm than any Ringo song. Since psychadelic doesn't really mean anything when it comes to drumming, all Ringo has going is rock and "world."

I mean, if you want to factor in other instruments than yeah he's more versatile, otherwise it could swing either way.
Author:  Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Human wrote:
Neither are versatile, of course there is. Bug Juice is a farther venture from Dave's norm than any Ringo song. Since psychadelic doesn't really mean anything when it comes to drumming, all Ringo has going is rock and "world."

I mean, if you want to factor in other instruments than yeah he's more versatile, otherwise it could swing either way.


Within the beatles the styles of Ringo's playing were drastically different, including some Latin beats to symphonic timpany style. I find it very strange that on the front page it says the each singular song by Lombardo is recognizable from eachother. All Slayer songs sound the same to me, and Lombardo's drum style never really changes. Ringo's drum beats differ vastly in not just style, but technique and genre. Within the Beatles themselves, the amount of styles, genres and beats Ringo covered were much more versatile than anything Lombardo's done.

Lombardo was original, but metal drumming was around before him, and after. Same with the double bass pedal. No one took it to the same heights he did until him, but after him many built on it. His style was heavily original. However, there was no one like Ringo before or after him, maybe due to his lack of technique and being left handed he had to make up for it with extreme creativity. Either way, no one played like Ringo before him, similar to Moon but not to that degree. Afterwards, no one can replicate most of Ringo's fills, and his style and tone is easily identifiable and I haven't heard it reproduced anywhere else. Lombardo on the other hand, there are a hand full of metal guys that can replicate his songs pat, like Moon. Replicating doesn't have anything to do with originality sure, but the point is before Lombardo there was that style of playing, it was taken to new heights by him that were never imagined. Before Ringo, there was nothing like Ringo, because there was nothing like the Beatles before them and nothing that required that style of drumming for such a vast array of songs. Lombardo developed on a previously existing style, Ringo made his own. The playing a right hand kit left hand definitely helped for a very original style and approach.

About creativity, Lombardo was absurdly creative with his used of double bass and the way he played cymbals, but I've never heard anything like Ringo's mix ups of fill and beats. He'd leave so much space in a song just to fill in with a few cymbals and then lots of silence before some fills or general beats. I've never seen that in rock and would never think of it myself. The weirdest thing is that they work, these simple drumlines are actually so messed up because who would think to play that way? Case and point (and I know I come back to this one a lot): A Day in the Life. More than half of the first part of the song has no drumming, it's interspersed in bits and pieces of weird fill and cymbal placements, the type of playing you'd expect to hear in a symphony. In a quite symphony piece you wouldn't be playing a beat the whole time, though you might add a 'rain' effect wit cymbals or some timpany playing for emphasis, which Ringo does with his toms. Even Come Together, simplist drum line ever, but who would literally just play 8ths on a single tom and quarters on the bass pedal, that's it, one hand, for every chorus of a piece? It's so simple I would have NEVER thought of it, and I've never heard a simpler drum line, unless it's all bass or all one drum. But the thing is it fits PERFECTLY. The fills in Oh Darling! actually have really weird sticking and double strokes as well, and the way he accents it is very creative. I've heard tons of Lombardo, it all sounds similar, it's creative because no one did it like that before, however it still is just straight double bass at really high speeds with some very, very basic stick patterns on top. Take Raining Blood or Angel of Death. Yes the bass is impressive and new, but is there really anything that special about the sticking? Anything creative with the playing? Changing signatures, mashing beats, switching between cymbals and snare in odd triplet linear fills? No. The music didn't require it, but even in the fantomas, I can't compare their creativity. It took me years of listening to the Beatles and drumming to fully appreciate Ringo's playing. I guess it is like Phil Collins said, the better I've gotten the more I realize that no one could have come up with what he did, and we still can't come up with things that sound close
Author:  Human [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Bug Juice has everything you mentioned (well maybe not latin) , and that's one song, the solo was very typical of dave though.

Drumming open handed never exactly took off either, so comparing it to doublebass is a bit futile. Ringo gets credit for popularizing match grip but he isn't really instantly pointed to like Dave is for doublebass, I realize people like Cozy were doing it earlier but it was a completely different style.

I'm sensing an incredible bias here and it's somewhat silly, Slayer is a pretty repetitive group but Dave's parts weren't.

Oh and since popularity doesn't even technically really matter, Dave wins influence. Virtually every heavy metal drummer ever cites him as a direct influence, and the one's who don't still owe him a lot for popularizing it. Hal played a little matched grip too anyway, so what is it exactly ringo has done that Hal didn't?
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