DDD Forum :: View topic - 150 Greatest Rock Drummers

Virtually every heavy metal drummer ever cites him as a direct influence, and the one's who don't still owe him a lot for popularizing it. Hal played a little matched grip too anyway, so what is it exactly ringo has done that Hal didn't?

Jesus Christ, and you're calling HIM biased?

From Steve Smith:

"Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity," says Steve Smith. "Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed very unique and stylistic drum parts for the Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song.

"He was also the first drum star who was not an American by birth," Smith adds. "Ringo was the first `outsider' to join a very exclusive club of drummers, because the drumset was developed in the United States. Ringo was the first of the English rock drummers of the '60s to define the archetype of the present-day rock drummer."

()

If that's not influence, I don't know what the fuck is.

You're taking an INCREDIBLY myopic view of what 'influence' means if you're arriving at the conclusion that Dave is more influential than Starr. I say this as a HUGE Lombardo fan, I've said it before I think he's on the god tier of creativity in rock drumming along with only Bruford and Moon. That's it. But there's no way in hell he's as versatile as Ringo - at least in his Slayer stuff - and he's far FAR more repetitive stylistically.

Human wrote:

In short: Virtually every ROCK drummer cites Ringo as a direct influence beyond 1960's, if not, there is an evident connection in the influence, it is that huge. Ringo popularized match grip and was the first to show you can be a star drummer and a great one to without using traditional, while Buddy Rich was forcing it as being the best and Hal and other rock drummers felt inclined to focus on it, with the exception of Moon, who I've heard in interviews, focused on it because of Ringo's playing, as they were great friends they traded influence a lot through jam sessions, the match grip was Ringo.

ariel wrote:

I'm not being biased torwards dave, I'm listing Ringo ahead of him and I'm willing to concede that that is a fair placement. Slayer is the absolute worst place to look for good Lombardo material though as far as I'm concerned, outside maybe testament... you might as well compare that to "Whos Your Daddy."

Classic Rock Junkie wrote:

Human wrote:

That's an interesting story, I haven't heard that one before. Most of the more skilled guys use a variety of grips though, including traditional. However, your first statement is much more applicable with the likes of Moon himself than Ringo, every time I find someone who actually lists influences (or literally almost every time) they'll only mention one of those guys.

I don't think any drummer takes Starr on creativity 'by a galaxy'. I'm not saying he's the most creative drummer ever but he's creative.

Reg. versatility, Carey's played alt/prog metal and jazz fusion, right? Can someone clarify this?

Author:	Ariel [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Jesus Christ, and you're calling HIM biased? From Steve Smith: "Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity," says Steve Smith. "Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed very unique and stylistic drum parts for the Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song. "He was also the first drum star who was not an American by birth," Smith adds. "Ringo was the first `outsider' to join a very exclusive club of drummers, because the drumset was developed in the United States. Ringo was the first of the English rock drummers of the '60s to define the archetype of the present-day rock drummer." (http://www.pas.org/experience/halloffam ... Ringo.aspx) If that's not influence, I don't know what the fuck is. You're taking an INCREDIBLY myopic view of what 'influence' means if you're arriving at the conclusion that Dave is more influential than Starr. I say this as a HUGE Lombardo fan, I've said it before I think he's on the god tier of creativity in rock drumming along with only Bruford and Moon. That's it. But there's no way in hell he's as versatile as Ringo - at least in his Slayer stuff - and he's far FAR more repetitive stylistically.

Author:	Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Ringo is one of the most directly influential drummers ever. From Peart, Barker, and Ulrich to Portnoy Ringo has been stated as a flat out direct influence. I'm surprised you'd even compare them. I am bias towards the Beatles, but Ringo is extremely underrated, and it takes a long time to actually appreciate what he does IMO. A year ago I would have been like Lombardo ftw Ringo got nothing but the more I learn about the discrepancies and technicalities of drumming the more I realize how sensational Ringo was. I don't know a single drummer now a days who is not either indirectly influence by Ringo or directly influenced by him. Also he was the first and most widely cited as the drummer to popularize the match grip and use it throughout his whole career in popular music. I've listened to tons of Slayer, the drum parts are nowhere near as vastly different as Ride my Car to Tomorrow Never Knows to Come Together. Drumming match grip is everywhere by the way, I don't know a single modern drummer who can't do it, or in rock where the majority prefer it. That was Ringo's doing, not all Ringo, but he was the main popularizer of it. Influence shouldn't need more evidence, look at the influences of any rock drummer, it's hard to find many that don't mention Ringo. Alex Van Halen and Phil Collins are others who constantly name Ringo as a major influence. It has also been stated by many music historians and in tons of drum magazines that most of the standard and staple 'rock beats' were popularized, if not created by Ringo is the earlier Beatles years. Looking back, rock beats before Ringo were never so simple and simultaneously complex. Saying that Lombardo is more influential than Ringo, even directly is beyond absurd. And Ringo's influence goes beyond rock believe it or not.

Author:	Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Human wrote: Virtually every heavy metal drummer ever cites him as a direct influence, and the one's who don't still owe him a lot for popularizing it. Hal played a little matched grip too anyway, so what is it exactly ringo has done that Hal didn't? In short: Virtually every ROCK drummer cites Ringo as a direct influence beyond 1960's, if not, there is an evident connection in the influence, it is that huge. Ringo popularized match grip and was the first to show you can be a star drummer and a great one to without using traditional, while Buddy Rich was forcing it as being the best and Hal and other rock drummers felt inclined to focus on it, with the exception of Moon, who I've heard in interviews, focused on it because of Ringo's playing, as they were great friends they traded influence a lot through jam sessions, the match grip was Ringo.

Author:	Human [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
ariel wrote: Jesus Christ, and you're calling HIM biased? From Steve Smith: "Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity," says Steve Smith. "Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed very unique and stylistic drum parts for the Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song. "He was also the first drum star who was not an American by birth," Smith adds. "Ringo was the first `outsider' to join a very exclusive club of drummers, because the drumset was developed in the United States. Ringo was the first of the English rock drummers of the '60s to define the archetype of the present-day rock drummer." () If that's not influence, I don't know what the fuck is. You're taking an INCREDIBLY myopic view of what 'influence' means if you're arriving at the conclusion that Dave is more influential than Starr. I say this as a HUGE Lombardo fan, I've said it before I think he's on the god tier of creativity in rock drumming along with only Bruford and Moon. That's it. But there's no way in hell he's as versatile as Ringo - at least in his Slayer stuff - and he's far FAR more repetitive stylistically. I'm not being biased torwards dave, I'm listing Ringo ahead of him and I'm willing to concede that that is a fair placement. Slayer is the absolute worst place to look for good Lombardo material though as far as I'm concerned, outside maybe testament... you might as well compare that to "Whos Your Daddy." Classic Rock Junkie wrote: Human wrote: Virtually every heavy metal drummer ever cites him as a direct influence, and the one's who don't still owe him a lot for popularizing it. Hal played a little matched grip too anyway, so what is it exactly ringo has done that Hal didn't? In short: Virtually every ROCK drummer cites Ringo as a direct influence beyond 1960's, if not, there is an evident connection in the influence, it is that huge. Ringo popularized match grip and was the first to show you can be a star drummer and a great one to without using traditional, while Buddy Rich was forcing it as being the best and Hal and other rock drummers felt inclined to focus on it, with the exception of Moon, who I've heard in interviews, focused on it because of Ringo's playing, as they were great friends they traded influence a lot through jam sessions, the match grip was Ringo. That's an interesting story, I haven't heard that one before. Most of the more skilled guys use a variety of grips though, including traditional. However, your first statement is much more applicable with the likes of Moon himself than Ringo, every time I find someone who actually lists influences (or literally almost every time) they'll only mention one of those guys.

Author:	Classic Rock Junkie [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Human wrote: ariel wrote: Jesus Christ, and you're calling HIM biased? From Steve Smith: "Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity," says Steve Smith. "Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed very unique and stylistic drum parts for the Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song. "He was also the first drum star who was not an American by birth," Smith adds. "Ringo was the first `outsider' to join a very exclusive club of drummers, because the drumset was developed in the United States. Ringo was the first of the English rock drummers of the '60s to define the archetype of the present-day rock drummer." () If that's not influence, I don't know what the fuck is. You're taking an INCREDIBLY myopic view of what 'influence' means if you're arriving at the conclusion that Dave is more influential than Starr. I say this as a HUGE Lombardo fan, I've said it before I think he's on the god tier of creativity in rock drumming along with only Bruford and Moon. That's it. But there's no way in hell he's as versatile as Ringo - at least in his Slayer stuff - and he's far FAR more repetitive stylistically. I'm not being biased torwards dave, I'm listing Ringo ahead of him and I'm willing to concede that that is a fair placement. Slayer is the absolute worst place to look for good Lombardo material though as far as I'm concerned, outside maybe testament... you might as well compare that to "Whos Your Daddy." Classic Rock Junkie wrote: Human wrote: Virtually every heavy metal drummer ever cites him as a direct influence, and the one's who don't still owe him a lot for popularizing it. Hal played a little matched grip too anyway, so what is it exactly ringo has done that Hal didn't? In short: Virtually every ROCK drummer cites Ringo as a direct influence beyond 1960's, if not, there is an evident connection in the influence, it is that huge. Ringo popularized match grip and was the first to show you can be a star drummer and a great one to without using traditional, while Buddy Rich was forcing it as being the best and Hal and other rock drummers felt inclined to focus on it, with the exception of Moon, who I've heard in interviews, focused on it because of Ringo's playing, as they were great friends they traded influence a lot through jam sessions, the match grip was Ringo. That's an interesting story, I haven't heard that one before. Most of the more skilled guys use a variety of grips though, including traditional. However, your first statement is much more applicable with the likes of Moon himself than Ringo, every time I find someone who actually lists influences (or literally almost every time) they'll only mention one of those guys. I actually don't know much Lombardo outside of Slayer except the a few clips from the Fantomas, so I concede I might not know enough to judge him, and yes I know you already agreed to put Ringo ahead of him, I wasn't trying to put Lombardo down, from what I know he's terrific, I was just defending my breakdowns. It's also true that between Moon and Ringo, many choose one or the other, but each got so much influence from one another it's really hard to choose. You know Keith Moon was Ringo's son, Zak Starkey's godfather right? You can find clips of their jam session sometimes and there's plenty of videos of them as friends together on youtube, some of them playing together.

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Author:	Ariel [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Mmmm I think I said this once before but there are a couple of folks I can't help but think are awesome enough they deserve a spot here, namely... Brad Wilk Steve Upton Martin Axenrot (not familiar with his playing but people say it's amazing) the dude with Blood, Sweat and Tears (he's AMAZING) Tom Hunting (who allmusic describes as the only competitor to Lombardo in thrash drumming) Chris Adler ...and dammit, I don't care what anyone says, Chad Smith Still wondering why Vinnie Appice is on here...and for that matter Jason Bonham

Author:	Classic Rock Junkie [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Why should Chad Smith be on here? I agree about the guy from Blood Sweat and Tears, I forgot his name as well. And there are definitely some names here that can be removed/replaced. The Rev honestly is better than the majority of the lower end drummers on this list in plenty of areas and he's still not been generally considered for this list. No clue about Jason Bonham. Vinny Appice might just be here for being extremely prolific and moderately skilled, he's been in most of the huge metal bands and from that may gain some influence, but I truly can't say. Honestly below the 70's the list begins to fall apart due to the lack of actual solid well known drummers to put on the list, there are plenty that weren't put on, and those that were, I either don't know their work too well or really don't belong. I do think this list needs an overhaul in the lower areas, though I think top 60 it is pretty much the best list on the site for accuracy except maybe a few discrepancies. We really need the Jew to fix anything, and other than you, me, and human, this forum is the least visited, if not visited at all. Also, Brad Wilk, don't ask me because I hate Rage Against the Machines and find nothing good about their music, skill, or creativity except Tom Morello and even that has it's limits with me. They really feel like a giant Beastie Boys ripoff except for better lyrics and an occasional point to their songs. I really don't like them, and though I've heard an album or two, I can't say much if anything about their drummer. Steve Upton could belong, but he needs more influence, innovation, and creativity. The issue with drumming in general is that beyond a certain point it's really hard to innovate anything, there are the innovators, and then everyone else. Once something has been taken to the next level or just created, it takes a long long time for anyone else to either raise it higher or come up with something new. The innovators are mainly those who either worked at the birth of the genre or subgenre of their style or at the pinnacle of it. So that criteria makes it hard to put later down the row, but creativity and influence are there, and definitely lacking. Marten Axenrot is very good from what I've heard, have to look into it more

Author:	Human [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Hunting predates Lombardo and Ulrich, so I guess he should be on the list if Bostaph is. Axenrot is great in my opinion, I actually really liked Heritage and some of the groove sections on it are just as good as say Deliverance. Dunno the other guys very well, I've heard wilk just never really noticed him.

Author:	beaverteeth92 [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Should we add Clyde Stubblefield and combine his entry with Jabo's? Both are better known for playing together with James than they are on their own. Also where's Barriemore Barlow? He's easily a better drummer than Clive Bunker and is versatile as hell.

Author:	boo boo [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
I will never get the appeal of Bonham, he was a shitty drummer, easily the weak link in Led Zeppelin.

Author:	Yngtchie Blacksteen [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Trolling again, boobs?

Author:	Classic Rock Junkie [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
I'm honestly not even going to respond to that post. For each members respective instrument, Bohnam was by far the most important member in the band and to the history of rock music, his importance in rock drumming is completely unmatched.

Author:	beaverteeth92 [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers
Successful troll is successful. Also how do you guys feel about adding Carlton Barrett from The Wailers? He's essentially the archetypal reggae drummer.

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