So no ideas on the Gadd/coluita thing?

Gotta love Clash.

Re: Gadd/Colaiutta, I'm not sure. How extensive is their influence within rock?

Oh and CRJ, you said a few pages back that Peart was staying at #3 and we were moving forward (as we should)...

His whole style is an innovation.

I don't know what's more breathtaking. That you think triplets are an example of Bonham's complexity, or that you think Keith Moon doesn't play triplets. TRIPLETS.

I'd send this whole conversation to my brother, who is an absolutely brilliant drummer, except that I fear it might give him a stroke.

I know, right? It's amazing. Fucking triplets!

I didn't know selective reading even existed.

Triplets one are not triplets as in tri-pa-let tri-pa-let etc, it's a fill pattern. I never said it's complex. It's quite simple. He led into his triplets with his left hand instead of the general approach of leading in with the pedal. This gave it a different sound that tons of people replicate. It's not complex at all, but he popularized it and made it a standardized rock pattern called Bonham triplets. I never once said it's complex. His half time shuffle groove is more complex than anything Moon's done however. If I showed my drum teacher, or any reasonable drummer these debates, they'd think it's funny you even make a case for Moon having technique. He WAS known for having horrible technique. That you say otherwise astounds me.


Also I've never heard Keith Moon play the triplets I'm talking of, at bonham's speed it does require some accuracy. The pattern is left hand right hand pedal, those triplets, and then you move them around the kit, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1fXX3XBgSM

Keith just played them differently, he'd lead with his bass.

And I'd say Gadd is incredibly influential in rock but I don't know that for certain. His resume in rock certainly suggests he is though (Clapton, McCartney etc,) and a lot of his fills ideas are used a lot (particularly the Aja one)

I'd say at worst he's top 25 for influence but also top 5 for skill, creativity, and versatility. Vinnie isn't as influential as Gadd though I don't think

Gadd can definitely make top 25 if we consider him rock, like Purdie his influence is clearly evident throughout rock. The question is should we consider these drummers rock, just like the guitarists honorable mentions list, many of them aren't on the list because they can't be classified as rock. Gadd, like Buddy Rich is very influential in rock, though Gadd has played with some major rock artists, he has done far, far less in rock than anyone on this list, including Purdie and Palmer who I could say both their careers are at least half rock if not more.

Also do you have an opinion on this Moon Bonham debate or pretty much we're just done here, because I'm not changing the top 2, ever as far as I'm concerned and we should probably just move on.

So what.



Tons of people replicate it because it's easy. Unlike what's described in my link above which is ridiculously difficult.



Where's that?



That's a fucking lie. He had unorthodox technique. Anyone who thinks Keith Moon had horrible technique is an ignorant jackass.

I'm assuming he means Fool in the Rain

Crj, I don't think there is really an argument for steve gadd being excluded. He's widely influential in the rock drumming world AND he has major rock releases. And 25th most influential rock drummer is still very conservative and with him dominating the other criteria he should be in the -teens

I think you hurt his feelings, CRJ

if purdie's on the list I can agree Gadd should be as well. If we are only including influence within rock, he's probably still top 20. Where would you put him?

This video kinda proves my point. The whole video, for every drum part, you see either a general rock beat with sporadic 8th pedaling and just lots of rolls. If you think anything in that video was REMOTELY technical challenging or complex, then you lack understanding of the instrument. Everything he played there could be mastered by a drummer who's played diligently for a year. That's not a stretch. I also saw that his hand technique is awful. If you'd like to substitute the word awful for unorthodox to make yourself feel better, go for it, but his technique would prevent him from having any sort of dynamic control at truly high speeds. He didn't need it and that's fine.

All I heard the people saying in that video is about how he's nothing like anything else, he's not like any normal drummer. He's not that's why he has the highest possible originality rating like we all said and have been saying. I didn't hear a single thing in that vid about technicality. The drum lines were literally just roll after roll with cymbal crashes and as I said, sporadic 8ths. When the guy talking about Keith Moon said 'this is how a normal drummer would play it', yeah that's how a shitty normal drummer who's been playing for 2 weeks could play it. That's why this isn't a list for normal drummers. He adapted strictly the basic rock beat to the song, and the basic rock beat should work for nearly every rock song. We want creative people. Moon's part went beyond droll mediocre playing into great playing, but it was literally just throw a snare on the off beat roll for 4 16ths. I do that whenever I want to mix up a boring ass rock beat. That doesn't mean Keith was doing anything complex. Nothing in that video was complex. Keith leading with his left foot blowing his mind? Maybe he just sucks at independence. Sure it's cool Keith did that, since it's completely uneccessary, but if any remotely reasonable drummer wanted to do that, they should be able to. If you have a double bass, you want both your feet to be able to use both pedals, if you can't switch leads you're a mediocre drummer at best. Kieth was a great drummer, and among the 4 greatest to ever grace the rock world. The top 4 order is up for grabs with whatever criteria you choose, as long as it's these 4 drummers. With out criteria, Kieth's style and influence launch him to 4, but his lack of technique, drumlines that are creative, but not as much as those ahead of him, lack of skill, and complete lack of innovation (what did he innovate? Please, please tell me, and don't say his style was an innovation. Wild abandon and feel were around before moon, he just brought it to new levels, but what did he do for the kit? What did he do for drumlines and beats? What did he do for drum playing today other than be a gigantic influence?) have put him at slot 4.


If you think any of those drumlines or what you showed me are complex, or that Moon just has 'unorthodox' technique instead of lack of it, then maybe you just don't know much about drumming. I mean it. There's a limit to what I can take as interpretation and bias but this comes down to the same line as people thinking Joey Jordison's a beast at drums. I met someone today who has been playing drums for 5 years and says Joey blows him away and few drummers today compare. I asked him to show me what he plays, he had some vids on youtube. He was a derivative, straight forward, predictable drummer with no dynamic contrast, no technique, and relied on double bass pedaling to make up for the unoriginality and lack of ability he had. Playing drums for X years doesn't come down to much if you don't really understand the instrument. Similarly, your brother can play all he wants and you can have I don't care how many years of experience, Moon doesn't make complex drum beats, doesn't have good technique, and didn't innovate anything. Period. He is the second most important drummer in rock history, the most original, and with a style and feel unmatched that will never be replicated and never the likes seen of again. He was a fantastic drummer that added a unique and unforgettable sound to one of the greatest bands of all time and produced such a wild feel that his presence on the kit stills shocks and amazes people today. He had a feeling and style of the utmost originality and was a showman of the highest calibur. He was not technical, no where near Bonham in that, he was not innovative sticking to what he knew would work for him, and he did not devise complex drumlines. If anything that video showed him as less of an artist and more of a man with a natural talent that he wasn't even aware he had or how to harness properly.


As my drum teacher said, the most important thing about drumming is owning the set. Even if you don't have mad chops, even if you don't know just what you're doing, if you act like you know what you're doing, play with confidence and zeal, and own the kit you will look better than any other drummer out there and the audience will love you. I don't know any drummer better at that than Keith. We love this man, quit trying to destroy his image with your blatant fanboyism and ignorant over exaggerations. Your stubbornness here is beginning to grate on me, I like you ClashWho don't pull an Echoes for Keith Moon, he's one of my all time favs and I hate to keep knocking him down. I'm yet to hear a single valid non bias argument out of you with any solid evidence, it's becoming like Echoes here.

Seriously I think Clash is just trolling.
This is ridiculous and we need to move on. Anyone?

So is this our official top 10?

1. Bonham
2. Bruford
3. Peart
4. Moon
5. Baker
6. Palmer
7. Bozzio
8. Blaine
9. Starr
10. Paice

Also, am I alone in thinking Copeland > Appice?