You are such a fucking cock. And mind-numbingly ignorant. You going to tell me anyone can play like Keith Moon in one fucking year? That's fucking idiotic. This is the guy that blew the entire rock world away with his drumming ability. Jimi Hendrix wanted him. Jeff Beck wanted him. Jimmy Page wanted him. He was the most envied and sought after rock 'n' roll drummer on the planet. I can't even read the rest of your post I'm so fucking disgusted with you.

Apparently they're not the only ones that "want" him.

I'm saying they can play the drumlines, not in his style. If someone gave a drummer who's been playing for around 1 year diligently a transcription of most, if not all of Moon's material, they should have all the techniques and ability to play it, because his drumlines are not challenging or complex. Get your head out of your ass and stop being such a dick about all this. You're clearly either misunderstanding every word we've said or you have no clue about playing drums.

Just because a band wants someone doesn't mean his material isn't playable for not very technical drummers.

That doesn't make any sense. Either they can play like him or they can't. His drumlines are his style. There's no inbetween here. There's no middle ground. It's either-or. Obviously, they could have picked better clips for that video, but that doesn't matter. You know what he's capable of. So don't feign ignorance and base your judgment of his abilities on those clips.

His hand technique is awful? No, it's just not technically correct according to your boring drum teachers. Maybe Keith's hand technique is part of why he was so great and so unique. Maybe you should give it a try. But, no, you're just going to be another boring, technically correct drummer who will never do anything as revolutionary as what Keith Moon did for the drumkit.

And you keep going on about a lack of innovation. If a drummer comes along and plays like no other drummer ever has before, how the fuck is that not innovation? If professional drummers can't figure out how he's doing what he's doing, even when he's doing it right in front of them(!), how is that not innovative? John Bonham plays a fucking triplet in a slightly different way and that's innovation, but Keith Moon switching to a left foot lead for double bass parts is not? How the fuck does that work? And Keith Moon was the first to bring the double bass drumkit into rock. He did it before Ginger Baker. And even if it was at the same time, that means they share credit. Saying Keith Moon isn't an innovative drummer is crap.



No one can play like him, so that's obviously not true. The idea that someone could accomplish Quadrophenia after one year of playing the drums is bullshit. Let alone Tommy or Who's Next.



I can't believe you think anyone can play like Keith Moon in a year. He's arguably the most unique, legendary, revered, revolutionary drummer in the history of rock 'n' roll. You get your head out of your ass. Or go join a rock band and become a superstar, since you can play every lick Keith Moon ever played. You've been playing longer than a year, right?

Fuck it, Keith Moon should be #1 on this list. I'll bet dipshits like you think they can play every lick James Jamerson ever played, too. And, shit, anyone can accomplish Are You Experienced? after a year of playing. No doubt.

How many times does this have to be explained to you?
TECHNIQUE AND DELIVERY ARE NOT THE SAME FUCKING THING.
Technique refers to strictly your drumming itself. Delivery is more about how you APPROACH what you're playing. Can you grasp this concept?
Examples:
Neil Peart - amazing skill and technique, but fairly poor delivery.
Keith Moon - amazing delivery and approach, limited technique



1.) Making the assumption that all technically correct drummers are boring.
2.) Making the assumption that no technical drummer could be revolutionary.
Honestly, your black-and-white sense of logic astounds me.



Because that's not what innovation is. What you're describing is more about originality, where we already agreed Keith is #1 so try not to cry too much.
Keith didn't innovate a damn thing as far techniques in drumming go. And no, being wild and raw doesn't count.



You're blowing this out of proportion.
Drummers are more amazed by Keith's APPROACH to the kit than his actual playing.
Even if Cobham said that about Moon, who cares? Do you know how many drummers have probably said that about Cobham?! Come on.



Baker is always the one that's given credit for bringing it into a rock setting. Keith did it at roughly the same time, but he didn't develop it or explore it's full potential like Baker did, especially with Cream's live improv jams.



You are still missing the point.
I don't think he meant just any person off the street. I think he means any credible drummer that's very good at what they do, could learn some of Moon's parts. Granted, he is probably the most "from-the-gut" drummer in rock history, and THAT is why he's largely worshipped so much, certainly not because of his awesome technique and skill. Lol.

Wrong.

"You’re forgiven if you think Ginger Baker and Keith Moon were the first double bass drummers."

drummagazine.com

How you play it and what you're playing are completely different. Playing style and writing are totally different, any good drummer knows this, I'd say any drummer who cares about the instrument knows this. Two people playing the same drumline, what makes one better or sound different/more unique? Their style, how they play it. You sound like you have almost no experience with drumming



No one will do what Keith Moon did for drumming, that's why he's so famous. The whole reason I work on what I do, work on feeling, work on dynamics, and work on vocab is so I avoid becoming a technically correct, boring drummer. You just add lots of feeling and style. You can't seem to understand the difference so I doubt you can even differentiate between a boring technical drummer, a boring novice drummer, and any great drummer. They can play the same drumlines, but style separates them, if you can't grasp this you can't really find your own playing style and become a robot, then you suck at drums.




Double Bass is the only thing you mentioned that he innovated. He didn't innovate switching to left foot leads, Bonham popularized a now famous and widely used drum technique. I could get on a drumset and mash around cleanly so no one has a clue what the fuck I'm doing, it doesn't mean it's innovative. You misunderstand the word in the context we're using it.



You're selective reading is making this argument unbearable and pointless. I've said many times no one plays LIKE him, but they can play the same DRUMLINE as him. If you don't understand the difference then get out of this forum since you don't even have an iota of understanding the fundamentals of drumming and technique vs. feel and style.



Yeah I can and I"m sure tons of others can play every lick he played, but why would we want to be copycats? I can play nearly every drumline John Bonham made and I know people who can play every Peart drumline. What's that have to do with anything about Moon being a great drummer? Because if you have a bit of skill and understanding you can play his drumlines? Yeah you can, but that doesn't mean people can make it sound like how he makes it. It's all about how you hit the drums, how you move yourself around the kit, the way he smashed the cymbals and his tuning that gave him his sound. His noteplacements were simple.


There's no point arguing because you are constantly choosing what to read and ignore and you are just completely misunderstanding the fundamentals of drumming. I'm moving on, there's no point arguing with someone who hasn't the slightest clue what he's arguing about. Your constant pairing of style and writing as the same thing is Echoes level dumb.

I guess you conveniently missed the part about Louie Bellson being primarily a JAZZ drummer.

The point is that Ginger Baker and Keith Moon are frequently given dual credit for bringing it to rock.

And Baker utilized it in SO many more ways than Moon, rather than just "going nuts" with it.

Dude, I don't want you to get the wrong idea here. Keith Moon is among my top 5 favorites of all time easily. Live At Leeds blows my mind into another dimension (the whole band, but especially Keith's drumming).
When I say he has "horrible" and "limited" technique, I'm not really bashing him because I LOVE that style of playing. But to say he's an artist on par with Peart or Bonham (let alone Bruford) is just factually wrong.

Irrelevant. Giving Keith Moon zero credit for innovation is wrong.



I think he's more of an artist than any of them. A genious, really. You can't teach what he did.

The reason you can't teach it is because it was all instinctual, with no musical approach and not much emphasis on anything besides sheer power. Plus it was mainly his delivery, his antics, and his overall persona behind the kit that made him who he was. It was just as much about the showmanship as it was about the drumming.
That was never the case with Peart or Bruford (or to a lesser extent, Bonham).

I think the notion that there's no musical approach is wrong. Keith Moon did think about what he did. How can you listen to something like "A Quick One While He's Away" and say there's no musical approach? Or "The Ox" or "I Can't Explain" or "I Can See For Miles" for that matter. You can't listen to "Underture" and tell me all he's going for is sheer power.



You can't see the showmanship when you're playing the records. It's not Keith's showmanship blowing you away on Live at Leeds. It's just the drumming.

Of course he thought about what he did. Hell, even a novice drummer who's never played before has to CONSCIOUSLY think about what they're doing. That goes for any instrument. You have to focus and realize and be alert of what's at your disposal.
But that's not what I'm talking about. When I say "no musical approach", I simply mean that he didn't have much discipline, dynamics, or versatility. Everything was just loud and up-front and in-your-face. It's like the difference between Eddie Van Halen and Jeff Beck. Do you understand what I'm saying?



Well, kind of. His drums are VERY loud and prominent in that song, they definitely stand out as a lead instrument.



I said the showmanship was mainly what made him legendary in general. More so than his "technique", that's for damn sure.
On the studio records, you can't see the showmanship, but you can hear his sloppy, primitive technique (which I still love).

Keith Moon wasn't focussed and alert and aware? Watch Isle of Wight again. That's a very focussed and alert drummer.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ku7QNRudg[/youtube]



Are you going by memory, or did you actually just listen to it?



He's a legendary rock drummer for his drumming. His technique is WHY his drumming is so impressive. He didn't play like anyone else.



Keith Moon was not sloppy. You can hear a few accidental rimshots on Quadrophenia. That's it. Tommy and Who's Next are impeccable.