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| 150 Greatest Rock Drummers https://digitaldreamdoor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=162 |
Page 61 of 138 |
| Author: | gminer [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Classic Rock Junkie wrote: gminer wrote: Classic Rock Junkie wrote: EDIT: I'm just feeding at this point since nothing I say is getting through to him so just ignore it and we're done on the Moon subject. Ariel do you have questions/complaints with Blaine vs. Ringo? Paice vs. Lombardo is going to be on the table and not set in stone but for now we will move on. I'm fine with the current top 20 so now the question is if we add Gadd where do we put him? .. with Paice vs Lombardo on the table ... for the first sitting how about some Paice on the drumline with his jungle rhythms from the 60`s ... Take care [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug1fmP_y-rs[/youtube] This is absolutely sick. The Paice vs. Lombardo thing comes down right now to influence, mainly since the breakdown ends up: Influence: ? Innovation: Lombardo Originality: Lombardo Creativity: Paice Skill: Paice Stylistic Versatility: Paice I don't think anyone will argue Lombardo being more original than Paice, the question right now is since Influence is 2 if Lombardo takes it it's 4 - 3, if Paice takes it it's 5-2, so that's right now what we're trying to prove. Lombardo has been said his influence reaches to nearly every metal drummer since, I say Paice has far more influence total throughout every genre of rock, however I can't really find solid ways to prove it, though I'm certain it's true. If you have a case for his influence, he wins, it's clear Paice is more creative (IMO), skilled, and has more varied drumbeats and styles. That is quite true that Lambardo does have influence with almost every metal drummer but I would also suggest Paice has a level of influence within that genre as well, and then as mentioned more influence within a broader spectrum ... one could also argue that Paice has what one might call uber influence in that he is one of the pioneer/founding fathers of hard rock/heavy metal that touches many drummers whether they might realize it or not .... similiar to the small ripples from a hard rock dropped in a pond ... Take care |
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| Author: | gminer [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Ariel wrote: PS CRJ can't find the recent post you made thanking me for nominating you as mod here...dude it's a pleasure and I'm so happy I did it...this forum is fucking sick and you're the best mod on this site right now imo. And probably the best mod I've ever seen at DDD, along with Jim from the old DDD ... you are both excellent mods ... Take care |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
No, YOU take care. |
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| Author: | Human [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Nah Steve wasn't exclusively a fusion player by any means and he's more relevant than Benny in style anyway (not to mention output) Just like Steve smith is equally as known for journey as he is for songs like nuteville. Gadds body of work either rivals or overshadows his work with fusion guys but I've always known him from steeley more than Corea. Crj I agree with your breakdown but now that I think of it Mitch is probably greater in the context of rock music too... |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
I mean in the context of rock music I'd say Phil Collins is more influential and important, the question is are we going to use the criteria since the latter half favors him or should we have him lower because he's not strictly rock? It's easier just not to include him, but I"m aware of his large body of rock work, however I still would not label Gadd as a rock drummer, but he could fit on this list. Should we have a side list like the guitar forum or something for non-central rock drummers that also have had a huge impact on rock? Everyone on this list's main body of work consists of rock, even Purdie and the others who've played jazz (like Bruford), the majority of their work is rock. The majority of Gadd's is not. So should we expand this list to those who have a large body of rock work or whose central genre is rock, hence rock drummer? I'm also going to move Paice above Lombardo, I am the mod so I can make decisions, and I intuitively know (if not know from knowing lots of drummers and looking around) that Paice has more influence, so that I'm going to fix. Other than that, I may move Copeland above Porcaro and then I think top 20 is good. If you want Stu to expand upon Benjamin please do, I also don't know too much about him. |
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| Author: | Human [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
What I read suggested Benny was more prominent in other genres as well. |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Quote: So should we expand this list to those who have a large body of rock work or whose central genre is rock, hence rock drummer? Yeah personally I think having guys like Gadd and Vinnie would just complicate things even more. |
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| Author: | gminer [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Negative Creep wrote: No, YOU take care. Cozy Powell - Rainbow live in Munich 1977 with Tchaikovsky`s 1812 Overture in all its bombastic drumming glory .... generally performed iive in the middle of the tune Still I Am Sad ... [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ioHnsdTVCg[/youtube] |
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| Author: | Rickymaivia [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
He did something similar later with the Brian May Band: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQO_A7JoXkk[/youtube] |
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| Author: | gminer [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
D.J. wrote: He did something similar later with the Brian May Band: before his passing, he certainly was a drummer in great demand by some of rock`s finest musicians ... Take care |
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| Author: | gminer [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Classic Rock Junkie wrote: I'm also going to move Paice above Lombardo, I am the mod so I can make decisions, and I intuitively know (if not know from knowing lots of drummers and looking around) that Paice has more influence, so that I'm going to fix. Other than that, I may move Copeland above Porcaro and then I think top 20 is good. If you want Stu to expand upon Benjamin please do, I also don't know too much about him. Excellent ... from Paice to CRJ .. a wonderful drummers tune ... Speed King the full version ... Take care [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P05qji8TNuY[/youtube] |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Yeah I absolutely love that song, I have most Purple albums, well their earlier stuff. Paice is definitely one of my all time favorite rock drummers, easy top 10 fav. |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Thanks for keeping Paice in top 10 Anyway, BENNY... Stu posted this link a while back in another thread in this subforum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD2aTQXy ... ata_player (page 2 of the all genre drummers thread) And here's Stu's longer explanation on Benny from that same thread/page: StuBass wrote: To describe Benny Benjamin as a drummer, one word comes to mind...EXPLOSIVE. Prior to Motown, Benny played with a lot of blues artists like Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Lowell Fulsom, and others. Essentially a jazz drummer, Benny, along with James Jamerson and a few others crafted the style which became known as The Motown Sound. A typical session would start with a chord sheet for the musicians...then either Benny or James would kick something off and those two would lock on something. At that point...the rest of the band could come in as song after song was created in this manner. Berry Gordy would cancel sessions if both Benny and James were not available. Listen to the intros to a couple of Temptations songs like "Girl, Why You Wanna Make Me Blue" or "Ain't Too Proud To Beg"...and you can see of the intro just how those tracks developed. If Websters dictionary defined "locking" between a bassist and drummer...James and Bennys picture would have to be there. Perhaps thats why both were two of the earliest inductees as sidemen in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. One of the keys to Bennys playing were the fills and pickups he used which were unique only to him. In later years as drummers like Uriel Jones and Pistol Allen took on some of the workload at Motown, they imparted their own pickups...but as Uriel admitted...all three of those pickups came from "Papa Zita"...Benny Benjamin. Bennys somewhat flawed lifestyle which brought about his early demise, also brought along a history of tales and folklore. Never reliable, he would show up late for sessions with some of the wierdest stories possible to explain his tardiness. At times his drums would end up in the pawn shop and his bandmates would have to get them out for a session. Benny was notorious for playing sessions with the tips broken off his sticks, or putting a hole in his drum head and just turning his drum over and finishing the session playing his snare upside down...anything to get the job done. Fortunately...there are hundreds of Benny Benjamin tracks out there for musicians and drummers to analyze and study. As The Beatles John Lennon put it...perhaps best..."When that Motown drummer hits his drum...it sounds like he's hitting it with a bloody TREE". Not seeing the argument for Benny being 'mostly outside of rock' at all. Lastly...if you don't mind CRJ could you explain Porcaro's influence? I'm kinda a noob lol |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
gminer wrote: Ariel wrote: PS CRJ can't find the recent post you made thanking me for nominating you as mod here...dude it's a pleasure and I'm so happy I did it...this forum is fucking sick and you're the best mod on this site right now imo. And probably the best mod I've ever seen at DDD, along with Jim from the old DDD ... you are both excellent mods ... Take care |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Very interesting stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Benjamin Check this shizz out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uqCocIh3_o very creative no? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV97roslmt0 amazing http://rockhall.com/inductees/benny-benjamin/bio/ This is actually really interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Tfm70dL5s absolutely fantastic imo http://www.musicradar.com/news/drums/10 ... -432429/24 (they're wrong about Heat Wave which wasn't Benny on drums, also can't find evidence Tracks of My Tears necessarily had Benny) Funk Brothers significance in general (basic stuff): "The Funk Brothers have received three Grammy awards: Lifetime Achievement Award in 2004 Best Traditional R&B Performance for "What's Going On" with Chaka Khan, 2002 Best Compilation Soundtrack Album For A Motion Picture, Television Or Other Visual Media for Standing in the Shadows of Motown, 2002. Bassist James Jamerson was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2000, and drummer Benny Benjamin in 2003. In 2003, surviving members were invited to the White House to meet President George W. Bush, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, in an event tied to Black History Month.[1] In 2010, the Funk Brothers were voted into the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends online Hall of Fame.[2]" (wiki...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funk_B ... ecognition) Bear in mind that the Funks had like 3 drummers plus a percussionist and would frequently overdub with two drummers on a track or whatever: "The band used innovative techniques. For example, most Motown records feature two drummers, playing together or overdubbing one another—Marvin Gaye's "I Heard It Through the Grapevine" used three drummers." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funk_Brothers) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ashford http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_%22Bongo%22_Brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriel_Jones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_%22Pistol%22_Allen To be clear though Benny was THE Funk Brother drummer, the top guy, the one the others took inspiration from and looked up to musically, the most talented and the one who gave Motown drums their signature style primarily. He is one of only two Funk Brothers who has been inducted in the Rock Hall, the other being Jamerson Also read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Funk_B ... le_members Bob Olhsson (who worked at Motown) posts: "Benny was the glue that made a lot of the Funk Brothers tracks work. Turning his track off could often result in a train wreck. We went quite a while without any hits after Benny died. Finally the combination of Uriel, Pistol and Jack Ashford playing the tambourine along with the other Funks tightening up their act was able to equal what Benny had brought to the table. James [Jamerson] got the notoriety but I've always felt Benny was actually the key to the original Motown sound." Also "I was told one of his favorite tricks was to pawn the drum kit after each session. A producer needed to know where to go pay and get it out of hock before their session! Then Benny'd show up late with one of his infamous excuses. The fact that he could get away with that kind of stuff speaks volumes about how important he was." (Source: http://faac.us/adf/messages/131452/1474 ... 1182672316) Oh and everything I've just posted can be read in less than 5 minutes altogether...despite the many links it's short...lol |
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