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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
gminer wrote: Classic Rock Junkie wrote: I'm also going to move Paice above Lombardo, I am the mod so I can make decisions, and I intuitively know (if not know from knowing lots of drummers and looking around) that Paice has more influence, so that I'm going to fix. Other than that, I may move Copeland above Porcaro and then I think top 20 is good. If you want Stu to expand upon Benjamin please do, I also don't know too much about him. Excellent ... from Paice to CRJ .. a wonderful drummers tune ... Speed King the full version ... Take care [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P05qji8TNuY[/youtube] Yeah the version I have is the U.S. version, where the intro is cut off. I think the intro adds a little something 'extra' to the song....the way Lord's organ quietly leads into the explosion of Glover, Paice and Gillan joining in. Side note - I was obssessed with this album when I first got it back in 2000 (I was 16). And I do mean OBSSESSED. Certainly the best Purple album of all time for me, no hesitation. |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Ariel wrote: Lastly...if you don't mind CRJ could you explain Porcaro's influence? I'm kinda a noob lol Probably the most important session man in rock after the three above him, I don't know a single modern drummer in the genre today that wasn't influenced by him in some way. You could say the whole sound of pop/rock drumming throughout the whole 80's to late 90's is attributed directly to Porcaro's sound. He was the most in demand and respected session drummer till the early-mid 90's and played on hundreds of tracks, possibly thousands. Here's just some of who he played with: Besides his work with Toto, he also performed as a session musician with artists such as Paul McCartney, Dire Straits, Willy DeVille, Jackson Browne, Donald Fagen, Steely Dan, Rickie Lee Jones, Michael Jackson, Go West, Nik Kershaw, Love and Money, Paul Simon, Don Henley, Madonna, Airplay, Al Jarreau, George Benson, the Manhattan Transfer, America, Peter Frampton, the Bee Gees, Tom Scott, Michael McDonald, Amy Holland, Joe Cocker, Stan Getz, Sérgio Mendes, Lee Ritenour, Christopher Cross, James Newton-Howard, Timothy B. Schmit, Joe Walsh, Jim Messina, Poco, Exile, the Four Tops, Barbra Streisand, Diana Ross, Natalie Cole, Les Dudek, Warren Zevon, Bonnie Raitt, David Gilmour, Roger Waters, Pink Floyd, Roger Hodgson, Paul Anka, Eric Carmen, Eric Clapton, Miles Davis, Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, Tommy Bolin, Larry Carlton, Mari Iijima and Seals & Crofts. these are just a very small selection of names of who he played with I copypasted from wikipedia, but you can find the endless list of who he played for, you'd be looking at hundreds of albums and artists though. He also played on MJ's thriller album specifically, which MJ also wrote songs for him after his death, MJ wanted him more than any other drummer, along with Macca and many other artists at the time. You could say he played on nearly all the biggest pop/rock albums of the 80's, or at least on a good amount of them. He was also very skilled and innovative, made lots of grooves and shuffle's as well as expanding upon previous drummers techniques. |
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| Author: | Ariel [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
That is absolutely epic. Definitely understand his position now. Thanks. That said I can't help but feel like the whole stretch on this list from 17 to 20 is largely interchangeable/all of them are very close in greatness Oh and gminer that 'Speed King'...absolutely epic drumming (and song in general) Oh and CRJ...please note that I did update that big post on Benny a couple times...please refer to the final version when/if you respond! Sorry lol |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Should Aldridge really be that high? I've never heard anyone make a big deal about him really. Seems to me like Shrieve and Powell could replace him. |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Ariel, that's all very interesting stuff. Know lots of mowtown songs (and all the ones you posted) so I'm familiar with a good amount of his stuff. A very creative drummer indeed. And very popular and influential. However I think he's fine where he is, the question comes down to 17-20 are all somewhat interchangeable. Does Benny's creativity overshadow Ward's innovation and originality? Both of which I'd give him over Benny, and maybe even Influence. Benny wouldn't take Copeland, who wins IMO in everything, maybe Benny ties or takes Influence, but I still say Copeland takes everything, maybe a tie for influence but it doesn't matter since Copeland wins anyways. So really it's either he switches with Ward or he stays at 20. I think Ward is right at 19 and Benny is a great top 20 round off. I know very little if nothing about Aldridge except he's very influential in metal and very popular/acclaimed. I know little about his innovations and as far as I know he does okay in creativity and skill, though I haven't heard enough of him to say. I don't even know how original he is... |
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| Author: | Sherick [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Aldridge was very creative with his double kick grooves, for which he would also have to get plenty of innovation points. Not so sure about originality, though I would have to guess he does well there too. I mean sure, Baker and Moon were using double bass before him, but nothing like "Hot n Nasty" or "Up" so far as I know. He was also pretty innovative when it comes to playing with his hands, though I don't think that contributed a terrible lot  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWMerkLpwE |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Sherick wrote: Aldridge was very creative with his double kick grooves, for which he would also have to get plenty of innovation points. Not so sure about originality, though I would have to guess he does well there too. I mean sure, Baker and Moon were using double bass before him, but nothing like "Hot n Nasty" or "Up" so far as I know. He was also pretty innovative when it comes to playing with his hands, though I don't think that contributed a terrible lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWMerkLpwE What...the...fuck? I've always liked BOR but I never knew Aldridge played for them.  Anyway, I take back my statement because THAT CLIP WAS WICKED. I'd say he scores massively on creativity, originality and skill. He can't be given too high a score for innovation though, even if he did 'expand' on the technique after Baker and Moon introduced it in rock (imo that would fall more under creativity). But like I said, creativity, originality and skill are a given for this guy. Not sure about influence or stylistic versatility... Was anyone using double bass that fast before 1973? The only one I can think of is Ian Paice on Fireaball, but even that isn't as fast or controlled as what Aldridge does here. |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
So I guess Aldridge is good where he is? I know he's also very influential in metal. I trust a lot of The Jew's placements on this list so unless anyone has complaints it sounds like he's fine for now. |
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| Author: | gminer [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Negative Creep wrote: Sherick wrote: Aldridge was very creative with his double kick grooves, for which he would also have to get plenty of innovation points. Not so sure about originality, though I would have to guess he does well there too. I mean sure, Baker and Moon were using double bass before him, but nothing like "Hot n Nasty" or "Up" so far as I know. He was also pretty innovative when it comes to playing with his hands, though I don't think that contributed a terrible lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWMerkLpwE What...the...fuck? I've always liked BOR but I never knew Aldridge played for them. Anyway, I take back my statement because THAT CLIP WAS WICKED. I'd say he scores massively on creativity, originality and skill. He can't be given too high a score for innovation though, even if he did 'expand' on the technique after Baker and Moon introduced it in rock (imo that would fall more under creativity). But like I said, creativity, originality and skill are a given for this guy. Not sure about influence or stylistic versatility... Was anyone using double bass that fast before 1973? The only one I can think of is Ian Paice on Fireaball, but even that isn't as fast or controlled as what Aldridge does here. ... as a note of trivia Paice borrowed one of Moon`s bass drums to put along side his for the recording of the tune Fireball ... both Purple and the Who were recording in the same studio at the time ....Take care Jazz fusion time - Dustbins and Paicesetter ... you will not be disappointed ... Ian Paice (drums), Miller Anderson (guitar) and Colin Hodgkinson (bass)..... Take care [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSZrURPPnoY[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXnh63Gm-zA[/youtube] |
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| Author: | Sherick [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Negative Creep wrote: Sherick wrote: Aldridge was very creative with his double kick grooves, for which he would also have to get plenty of innovation points. Not so sure about originality, though I would have to guess he does well there too. I mean sure, Baker and Moon were using double bass before him, but nothing like "Hot n Nasty" or "Up" so far as I know. He was also pretty innovative when it comes to playing with his hands, though I don't think that contributed a terrible lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWMerkLpwE What...the...fuck? I've always liked BOR but I never knew Aldridge played for them. Anyway, I take back my statement because THAT CLIP WAS WICKED. I'd say he scores massively on creativity, originality and skill. He can't be given too high a score for innovation though, even if he did 'expand' on the technique after Baker and Moon introduced it in rock (imo that would fall more under creativity). But like I said, creativity, originality and skill are a given for this guy. Not sure about influence or stylistic versatility... Was anyone using double bass that fast before 1973? The only one I can think of is Ian Paice on Fireaball, but even that isn't as fast or controlled as what Aldridge does here.  He's massively influential in metal, and probably most hard rock as well. He basically came up with every double bass fill, from continuous sixteenths underneath hand fills, to triplet flans between hand rolls, to alternating rolls, to sporadic 32nds and some I don't even have names for. Metal guys like to point to Bonham and Peart and Ward, but it's actually Aldridge most of them are emulating. |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Sherick wrote: Negative Creep wrote: Sherick wrote: Aldridge was very creative with his double kick grooves, for which he would also have to get plenty of innovation points. Not so sure about originality, though I would have to guess he does well there too. I mean sure, Baker and Moon were using double bass before him, but nothing like "Hot n Nasty" or "Up" so far as I know. He was also pretty innovative when it comes to playing with his hands, though I don't think that contributed a terrible lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiWMerkLpwE What...the...fuck? I've always liked BOR but I never knew Aldridge played for them. Anyway, I take back my statement because THAT CLIP WAS WICKED. I'd say he scores massively on creativity, originality and skill. He can't be given too high a score for innovation though, even if he did 'expand' on the technique after Baker and Moon introduced it in rock (imo that would fall more under creativity). But like I said, creativity, originality and skill are a given for this guy. Not sure about influence or stylistic versatility... Was anyone using double bass that fast before 1973? The only one I can think of is Ian Paice on Fireaball, but even that isn't as fast or controlled as what Aldridge does here. He's massively influential in metal, and probably most hard rock as well. He basically came up with every double bass fill, from continuous sixteenths underneath hand fills, to triplet flans between hand rolls, to alternating rolls, to sporadic 32nds and some I don't even have names for. Metal guys like to point to Bonham and Peart and Ward, but it's actually Aldridge most of them are emulating. Would you argue then for Aldrigde to swap with Ward or is he fine where he is? I will look into him more but what you say sounds correct as far as I know. I have to say though, I don't know anyone who was playing like this around 73: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPGI_nh133U |
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| Author: | Sherick [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
I actually would. Aldridge beats him handily in innovation, creativity, originality and skill I believe. If Ward beats or ties him in influence its only because of the Sabbath factor. |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Honestly, Aldridge takes Ward in everything but influence. Did Ward innovate anything of note? I dont think his style was all that original either, even though Sabbath were the first legitimate metal band. |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Sounds good to me, I'm perfectly fine completely flipping them actually. I could make a case for Mitchell beating Ward I guess....but for now I'll just flop Aldridge and Ward. I'm still pretty sure Copeland beats Aldridge though, but if you have reasons saying otherwise I'm glad to listen. |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 150 Greatest Rock Drummers |
Gavin Harrison needs to move da fuck up honestly, he scores well in nearly all criteria except influence to an astounding degree, and is right now working on changing the world of drumming as a whole with his studies on moving through parallel meters. |
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