DDD Forum :: View topic - 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll

1. Bob Dylan
2. Bob Marley
3. 2Pac
4. Big Daddy Kane
5. Bernie Taupin
6. Bono
7. Brian Wilson
8. Andre 3000
9. Billy Joel
10. Al Stewart
11. Billy Bragg
12. Beck
13. Ben Gibbard
14. Alex Turner
15. Ben Harper

So:

1. Chuck Berry
2. Eddie Holland
3. Curtis Mayfield
4. Bruce Springsteen
5. Chuck D
6. Doc Pomus
7. Cat Stevens
8. David Bowie
9. Conor Oberst
10. Eddie Vedder
11. Donald Fagan
12. Don Henley
13. Chris Cornell
14. Chris Difford
15. Chris Collingwood & Adam Schlesinger

Taking into account your lists, here's how I would go:

1. Eminem
2. Jay-Z
3. Jackson Browne
4. Elvis Costello
5. Gil-Scott Heron
6. Gordon Lightfoot
7. Ice Cube
8. Gerry Goffin/Carole King
9. Geezer Butler
10. George Harrison
11. Elliot Smith
12. Frank Zappa
13. Ian Anderson
14. James Taylor
15. Ian Curtis

Basically, I'm closer to agreeing with Tim on Costello, and with jf on Lightfoot and Smith.

On the previous list, I think Difford is pretty acclaimed, so I would move him ahead of Cornell, and possibly higher.

Put Brian's list on a starting page. To the next one:

1. John Lennon
2. Jerry Leiber
3. Joni Mitchell
4. Joe Strummer
5. Jim Morrison
6. John Fogerty
7. John Mellencamp
8. John Hiatt
9. Jello Biafra
10. Joe Jackson
11. Jimi Hendrix
12. Jerry Cantrell
13. Jonathan Richman
14. Jim Croce
15. Jeff Magnum

1. Eminem
2. Jay-Z
3. Jackson Browne
4. Elvis Costello
5. Gil Scott-Heron
6. Ice Cube
7. Frank Zappa
8. Geezer Butler
9. Elliott Smith
10. George Harrison
11. Ian Anderson
12. Carole King
13. Gerry Goffin
14. James Taylor
15. Ian Curtis

Removed Lightfoot and split Goffin and King.

Author:	Tim [ Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll

Author:	Tim [ Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
1. Eminem 2. Jay-Z 3. Jackson Browne 4. Elvis Costello 5. Gil-Scott Heron 6. Gerry Goffin/Carole King 7. Ice Cube 8. Geezer Butler 9. Ian Anderson 10. George Harrison 11. Frank Zappa 12. Gordon Lightfoot 13. James Taylor 14. Ian Curtis 15. Elliot Smith Also a fairly strong one. Might seem as an overkill to have two rappers at the top but I think it's correct choice.

Author:	jfauser [ Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
I would move Costello down then move Lightfoot and Smith up, and make a few small switches to get: 1. Eminem 2. Jay-Z 3. Jackson Browne 4. Gil-Scott Heron 5. Gordon Lightfoot 6. Ice Cube 7. Gerry Goffin/Carole King 8. Elvis Costello 9. Geezer Butler 10. George Harrison 11. Elliot Smith 12. James Taylor 13. Ian Anderson 14. Frank Zappa 15. Ian Curtis Not too dissimilar this time

Author:	Brian [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Taking into account your lists, here's how I would go: 1. Eminem 2. Jay-Z 3. Jackson Browne 4. Elvis Costello 5. Gil-Scott Heron 6. Gordon Lightfoot 7. Ice Cube 8. Gerry Goffin/Carole King 9. Geezer Butler 10. George Harrison 11. Elliot Smith 12. Frank Zappa 13. Ian Anderson 14. James Taylor 15. Ian Curtis Basically, I'm closer to agreeing with Tim on Costello, and with jf on Lightfoot and Smith. On the previous list, I think Difford is pretty acclaimed, so I would move him ahead of Cornell, and possibly higher.

Author:	Tim [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Put Brian's list on a starting page. To the next one: 1. John Lennon 2. Jerry Leiber 3. Joni Mitchell 4. Joe Strummer 5. Jim Morrison 6. John Fogerty 7. John Mellencamp 8. John Hiatt 9. Jello Biafra 10. Joe Jackson 11. Jimi Hendrix 12. Jerry Cantrell 13. Jonathan Richman 14. Jim Croce 15. Jeff Magnum

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Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Well, you're way to quick for me since I'll only have time to really look at these on weekends. Anyway, I'll try to chime in once in a while. jfauser wrote: 1. Bob Dylan 2. Bob Marley 3. 2Pac 4. Big Daddy Kane 5. Bernie Taupin 6. Bono 7. Brian Wilson 8. Andre 3000 9. Billy Joel 10. Al Stewart 11. Billy Bragg 12. Beck 13. Ben Gibbard 14. Alex Turner 15. Ben Harper In the 4-8 range, Taupin seems pretty high, Andre pretty low. I'd probably have that one like this: 4. Kane 5. Bono 6. Andre 7. Wilson 8. Taupin Also, Al Stewart at #10? I'd have thought he'd finish near the bottom here. And I'm saying this as a fan. What did he really do besides Year of the Cat (which is awesome) that anybody really knows? I'd move him down below Gibbard, maybe even Turner.

Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Tim wrote: So: 1. Chuck Berry 2. Eddie Holland 3. Curtis Mayfield 4. Bruce Springsteen 5. Chuck D 6. Doc Pomus 7. Cat Stevens 8. David Bowie 9. Conor Oberst 10. Eddie Vedder 11. Donald Fagan 12. Don Henley 13. Chris Cornell 14. Chris Difford 15. Chris Collingwood & Adam Schlesinger To be fair, Eddie Holland does seem a tad high here. Those early 'label' lyricists (Leiber, Holland, Pomus, maybe Smokey too) are pretty important influence-wise but are their lyrics really that great from an art standpoint (criterion 'acclaim' that is, I guess)? Mayfield was someone who really broke borders, Chuck D too, and the Boss is really acclaimed as a lyricist. I wouldn't have Holland higher than #6 really (probably not lower either). And then Pomus could move down a tad, just so we don't have them all next to each other. Maybe below Bowie. Donald Fagen is misspelt.

Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Brian wrote: Taking into account your lists, here's how I would go: 1. Eminem 2. Jay-Z 3. Jackson Browne 4. Elvis Costello 5. Gil-Scott Heron 6. Gordon Lightfoot 7. Ice Cube 8. Gerry Goffin/Carole King 9. Geezer Butler 10. George Harrison 11. Elliot Smith 12. Frank Zappa 13. Ian Anderson 14. James Taylor 15. Ian Curtis Basically, I'm closer to agreeing with Tim on Costello, and with jf on Lightfoot and Smith. On the previous list, I think Difford is pretty acclaimed, so I would move him ahead of Cornell, and possibly higher. I'd probably have Lightfoot lower (or maybe not on the list at all) as his being 'rock' is rather questionable. Certainly not ahead of Ice Cube. Then, I'd like to ask whether anybody knows anything about the songwriting partnership of Goffin and King. To me it currently looks like Goffin wrote the lyrics for the songs where both are credited together (i.e. the Brill Building stuff) while King only wrote those for her solo offerings. This means that the two probably should not be listed together. Either way, I think they should move down. Then, does Harrison really have to be ahead of Smith and Zappa? Can't Zappa be credited with making absurdism viable in rock lyrics? I could even see him ahead of Butler. As for spelling mistakes, it's Elliott Smith and Gil Scott-Heron (not Gil-Scott Heron).

Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Tim wrote: Put Brian's list on a starting page. To the next one: 1. John Lennon 2. Jerry Leiber 3. Joni Mitchell 4. Joe Strummer 5. Jim Morrison 6. John Fogerty 7. John Mellencamp 8. John Hiatt 9. Jello Biafra 10. Joe Jackson 11. Jimi Hendrix 12. Jerry Cantrell 13. Jonathan Richman 14. Jim Croce 15. Jeff Magnum I know Morrison is pretty divisive as a lyricist but that seems pretty low for him. Much of his reputation rests on his lyrics. I could see him on top of this bunch. Leiber I'd move down of course; not below Fogerty but at least below Joni. The rest looks ok to me. Except that it's Jeff Mangum, not Magnum.

Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
How would you rank whom I called "those early 'label' lyricists", by the way? Just to not compare apples and oranges for a change. My take: 1. Smokey 2. Leiber 3. Holland 4. Pomus 5. Goffin

Author:	Tim [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Your order looks fine. Do you think any other pre-Dylan 50s - 60s lyricists could make an appearence on our list? Barry & Greenwich, Bryants, Sam Cooke, Otis Blackwell maybe?

Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Cooke certainly. Not sure about the rest.

Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
To further stress my doubts about Lightfoot being on the list, here's some people you currently don't have (and how are they less rock than Lightfoot?): Buffy Sainte-Marie, Phil Ochs, Fred Neil.

Author:	Tim [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
So after paul's remarks I suggest the following 1. Bob Dylan 2. Bob Marley 3. 2Pac 4. Big Daddy Kane 5. Bono 6. André 3000 7. Bernie Taupin 8. Brian Wilson 9. Billy Joel 10. Billy Bragg 11. Beck 12. Ben Gibbard 13. Alex Turner 14. Al Stewart 15. Ben Harper I don't think Wilson should be above Taupin though, paul. He's considered a genius but I think mostly for things other than lyrics. Some great lyrics sure, but I don't think it's enough. 1. Chuck Berry 2. Curtis Mayfield 3. Bruce Springsteen 4. Chuck D 5. Eddie Holland 6. Cat Stevens 7. David Bowie 8. Doc Pomus 9. Conor Oberst 10. Eddie Vedder 11. Donald Fagen 12. Chris Difford 13. Don Henley 14. Chris Cornell 15. Chris Collingwood & Adam Schlesinger 1. Eminem 2. Jay-Z 3. Jackson Browne 4. Elvis Costello 5. Gil Scott-Heron 6. Ice Cube 7. Frank Zappa 8. Geezer Butler 9. Elliott Smith 10. George Harrison 11. Ian Anderson 12. Gerry Goffin 13. Carole King 14. James Taylor 15. Ian Curtis Removed Lightfoot and split Goffin and King. 1. John Lennon 2. Joni Mitchell 3. Jim Morrison 4. Jerry Leiber 5. Joe Strummer 6. John Fogerty 7. John Mellencamp 8. John Hiatt 9. Jello Biafra 10. Joe Jackson 11. Jimi Hendrix 12. Jerry Cantrell 13. Jonathan Richman 14. Jim Croce 15. Jeff Mangum

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Author:	pauldrach [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll
Generally, I like it. One thing though: Tim wrote: 1. Eminem 2. Jay-Z 3. Jackson Browne 4. Elvis Costello 5. Gil Scott-Heron 6. Ice Cube 7. Frank Zappa 8. Geezer Butler 9. Elliott Smith 10. George Harrison 11. Ian Anderson 12. Carole King 13. Gerry Goffin 14. James Taylor 15. Ian Curtis Removed Lightfoot and split Goffin and King. I think Goffin should probably be above King. Those are quite a few classic early pop lyrics he wrote then, while King mainly has Tapestry to her credit and some of those were even written by Goffin.