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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Uh, Rakim is widely recognized as the greatest lyricist of an entire GENRE of music. You're telling me that means nothing? Men Without Hats aren't considered to be among 'the greatest' of anything, so your point makes no sense. |
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| Author: | Tudwell [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
I've never understood the praise for Pink Floyd's lyrics. They're not laughably bad, which is a step up above most lyrics ever written, but they're really nothing special. |
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| Author: | The Man [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Negative Creep wrote: Uh, Rakim is widely recognized as the greatest lyricist of an entire GENRE of music. You're telling me that means nothing? Men Without Hats aren't considered to be among 'the greatest' of anything, so your point makes no sense. Where are you pulling this "widely recognized"? By whom? Give a source. You're making a general statement with no proof |
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| Author: | The Man [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Tudwell wrote: I've never understood the praise for Pink Floyd's lyrics. They're not laughably bad, which is a step up above most lyrics ever written, but they're really nothing special. What have you listened to? |
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| Author: | Tudwell [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, and the Division Bell. |
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| Author: | Deany [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
DSotM and Animals are top-notch lyrical albums, IMO. Waters definitely deserves top 10. |
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| Author: | Gray [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
I for one think Waters is a very good lyricist, but I haven't looked into some of the other lyricists lyrics enough to say where I think he'd be. |
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| Author: | The Man [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Tudwell wrote: Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, and the Division Bell. What do you think of songs like "Time," "Eclipse," "Shine on You Crazy Diamond," "When the Tigers Broke Free," and "Dogs"? |
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| Author: | Tudwell [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
The Man wrote: Tudwell wrote: Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, and the Division Bell. What do you think of songs like "Time," "Eclipse," "Shine on You Crazy Diamond," "When the Tigers Broke Free," and "Dogs"? Well, I hadn't listened to these songs with the lyrics sheet at hand, so I decided to do so. The lyrics to Time were significantly worse than I had realized. Very heavy-handed images about a philosophical topic to which he provides absolutely no insight. "We get older and time never stops!!! OMG!" Yeah, no shit. The lyrics to Shine On You Crazy Diamond are better, but it's still not like a lyrical masterpiece. On second thought, though, I don't know why I singled out Pink Floyd because a lot of the other lyricists on this list aren't all that great either when it comes purely to quality (Lennon, Townshend, Morrison just from the top 10). I guess they're on here for influence or something. |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
The Man wrote: Negative Creep wrote: Uh, Rakim is widely recognized as the greatest lyricist of an entire GENRE of music. You're telling me that means nothing? Men Without Hats aren't considered to be among 'the greatest' of anything, so your point makes no sense. Where are you pulling this "widely recognized"? By whom? Give a source. You're making a general statement with no proof Quote: Influence and legacy
Eric B. & Rakim's Paid in Full, known widely as one of the most influential hip hop albums of all time.Paid in Full was released during the period in hip hop that became known as the golden age hip hop era.[50] Alex Ogg considered it the duo's magnum opus in his book The Men Behind Def Jam.[38] Rakim's rapping set a blueprint for future rappers and helped secure East Coast hip hop's reputation for innovative lyrical technique.[37][51] Author William Cobb stated in To the Break of Dawn that his rapping had "stepped outside" of the preceding era of old school hip hop and that while the vocabulary and lyrical dexterity of newer rappers had improved, it was "nowhere near what Rakim introduced to the genre".[50] The New York Times' Dimitri Ehrlich, who described the album as "an artistic and commercial benchmark", credited Rakim for helping "give birth to a musical genre" and leading "a quiet musical revolution, introducing a soft-spoken rapping style".[52] Allmusic's Steve Huey declared Paid in Full one of hip hop's most influential albums and "essential listening" for those interested in the genre's "basic musical foundations".[46] MTV ranked it at number one in "The Greatest Hip-Hop Albums of All Time", stating it raised the standards of hip hop "both sonically and poetically" and described it as "captivating, profound, innovative and instantly influential".[40] The album is broken down track-by-track by Rakim in Brian Coleman's book Check the Technique.[53] Rolling Stone magazine listed it at number 227 on "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time", calling it "Ice-grilled, laid-back, diamond-sharp: Rakim is a front-runner in the race for Best Rapper Ever, and this album is a big reason why."[54] Similarly, Blender magazine included the album in its "500 CDs You Must Own Before You Die".[55] Time magazine listed it as one of the eighteen albums of the 1980s in its "All-TIME 100" albums; editor Alan Light acknowledged the record for changing the "sound, flow, and potential" of hip hop and that if Rakim is "the greatest MC of all time, as many argue, this album is the evidence". Jess Harvell of Pitchfork Media complimented Rakim for an "endless display of pure skill" and described the album as "laidback and funky", but believed it contained "too much filler to get a free 'classic' pass".[45] Pitchfork Media placed Paid in Full at number fifty-two in its "Top 100 Albums of the 1980s"; editor Sam Chennault wrote that Rakim inspired a generation of MCs and "defined what it meant to be a hip-hop lyricist".[56] The rappers who have used the unique rapping style employed by Rakim and attribute it as inspiration include GZA, and Raekwon (from the Wu-Tang Clan), Nas, Kool G. Rap, Jay-Z, The Notorious B.I.G., Lloyd Banks, and many more.[52][57] On July 11, 1995, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) certified the album platinum.[58] As of December 1997, it has sold over a million copies.[52] [edit] Musical tributesBlaze Ya Dead Homie references Eric B & Rakim in his song "I'm Back" off his 2010 album Gang Rags. Tupac Shakur pays homage to Rakim in his song "Old School" he raps, "Eric B. and Rakim was, the shit to me". Raekwon (from the Wu-Tang Clan) dedicated a tribute to Rakim titled "Rakim Tribute," which was released on DaVinci Code: The Vatican Mixtape Vol. II in 2006. 50 Cent makes a reference to Rakim on his hugely successful collaborative effort "Hate It or Love It" with The Game. "Daddy ain't around, probably out committing felonies/my favorite rapper used to sing Ch-Check out my melody," referencing Eric B & Rakim's hit "My Melody". Shock-G paid homage to Rakim by playfully reciting lines from the Eric-B & Rakim song "I Know You Got Soul" in the Digital Underground song Doowutchyalike: "since ya came here ya gotta show & prove, and do that dance until it don't move.." Saul Williams mentions Rakim in the song "Twice The First Time", stating: "not until you've listened to Rakim on a rocky mountain top have you heard hip hop" and also in the song "Penny For A Thought" where he says "..., something like Rakim said. I could quote any MC, but why should I? how would it benefit me?" Blaze Ya Dead Homie refererences Eric B. & Rakim and their song "I Ain't No Joke" in his verse on "Free Studio" off Psychopathics From Outer Space 3 Epik High samples "Eric B. is President" in their song "Funkdamental" on their third album, Swan Songs. Kurupt references Rakim on Snoop Dogg's debut album, Doggystyle. On "For All My Niggaz and Bitches," Kurupt says, "Who's jokin'? Rakim never joked, so why should I, loc? now that's my idol...." Ghostface Killah references Rakim in the end of "Paisely Darts," by saying that he is better than every artist except for Rakim, referring to him as "the older god". On his album More Fish, the first track, "Ghost is Back", makes use of the beat from "Juice (Know the Ledge)". He also raps some lines from "Move the Crowd" in "Ghost Deini." Eminem has also paid tribute to Rakim's style as an inspiration and references lines from "My Melody" in his song “I'm Back”. The hook in Eminem's song "The Way I Am" is an homage to the line "I'm the R, the A, to the KIM. If I wasn't then why would I say I am?" from Eric B and Rakim's "As the Rhyme Goes On". Nas made a similar reference in Got Ur Self A...: "I'm the N the A to the S-I-R / and If I wasn't I must've been Escobar". Also, on his Street's Disciple album, there is a track titled "U.B.R. (Unauthorized Biography of Rakim)" where he tells a short version of Rakim's musical career and life. Jay-Z paid tribute to Rakim in his 2007 hit "Blue Magic," where he states: "Eighty-seven state of mind that I'm in/I'm in my prime so for that time I'm Rakim." Jay also recalls Rakim's line "So easily will I E-M-C-E-E" with "So easily do I W-H-I-P." Killah Priest references Rakim in many of his songs. He states: "I remind you of Rakim but I'm not him." Scroobius Pip mentions Rakim in his song "Fixed" from the album Angles, as an example of hip hop as art, in the lines "Take it back to the start/Like KRS and Rakim use passion and heart". He also mentions him in his song "Snob". The Game directly refers to Rakim in the first line of the third verse of "Da Shit" by saying, "I'm the West Coast Rakim, got niggaz blocked in." He also mentions Rakim in his song "Angel" on LAX: "So I start hip-hop and I understand why Common used to love her. She got me open so I even had to fuck her. But I used the rubber, cause she was married to Rakim". The Game also refers to Rakim with the line "too close to the edge, that's what Rakim said" in the song "Wake the Dead". David Banner refers to Rakim and his song "Microphone Fiend" from the album Westside, with the lyrics "I've been rappin since Rakim but im still Fiendin'" Apathy pays homage to Rakim in his song "Hip Hop is Dead" on Baptism by Fire. Apathy raps, "Remember that video 'I Ain't No Joke', Rakim had a chain that'll break your neck, I'm trying to get paid in full and get that check." R.A. The Rugged Man references Rakim in his song "On The Block" referring to the golden age, "that's when Rakim ran shit." Rage Against the Machine covered the song "Microphone Fiend" as the opening song on their final album, Renegades, in 2000. Canibus pays homage to Rakim on his 1000-bar song "Poet Laureate Infinity", most notably with the bars "I been toe to toe with the best, I ‘Know the Ledge’" and "As odd as it may seem, the Microphone Fiend, Is God of the Hip Hop regime" Brother Ali calls Rakim his hero in his song "As Real As Can Be". He also references the line "I came in the door/said it before" from "Eric B is President" in his song "Whatcha Got" where he raps "I came in the door/1984". Drunken Tiger (South Korean hip-hop artist) features Rakim on the track "Monster" off of his 2009 album, "Feel gHood Muzik: The 8th Wonder". Eazy-e Samples Rakim's song "My Melody" in the song "Eazy-Duz-It" Jay-Z references Rakim in his song "Run This Town" rapping, "Please follow the leader/So Eric B. we are/Microphone fiend/It's the return of the god/Peace god..." Jin references Rakim in his song "It's All Over" from "The Emcee's Properganda" album with the line "y'all needa follow the leader like Rakim gave the orders" Nas paid tribute in his song "The World Is Yours" by saying "The fiend of hip-hop has got me stuck like a crack pipe" N.W.A. pay tribute in their song "Express yourself" with the line " some drop science but I'm dropping English" Scott Van Pelt recently said on his radio show that '...because I'm Paid in Full like Rakim' Saigon mentions Rakim in his song 'Hip-Hop' stating "We crown Rakim the king, cos he was calling the gods of earth that came with bling bling" J-Live pays tribute to Rakim in his song, Epilogue, with the line "Now you could be the next Rakim-Shakespeare/your still ten steps away from having a career." Maino in a collaboration with Rakim on 'walk these street'; "Chillin' on the block, then listening to Ra-kim". Snoop Dogg raps "Paid in Full" in the movie "Old School" Limp Bizkit's song "My Way" samples "My Melody" by Rakim. Jurassic 5 references Rakim's line from My Melody in their song Concrete Schoolyard with the line "You shouldn't have told me/The pyramids can hold me/So now a contest is what you owe me/Pull out your beats, pull out your cuts/Give us a mic, whatup/And we goin' tear shit up." Jurassic 5 references Rakim's line from "Lyrics of Fury" in their song "Break" with the line, "There's only one capable/breaks the unbreakable/melodies unmakeable/patterns unescapeable." Tego Calderon pays homage to Rakim in his song "Boricuas NY 2" with the line "'cause we know demasiado MC/tu sabes los wannabees/un CD y se creen Rakim/know what I mean". Robin Thicke covered the song "Mahogany" under the title of "Mrs. Sexy" on his 2009 album Sex Therapy. Q-Unique mentions Rakim in his song "Crack Era" with the line "Rakim's lyrics taught me more than the teacher's scribbled chalk." MF Grimm refers to Rakim in his song "Together", with the line "Rakim said no mistakes allowed, so we corrected him, by disectin' him." LL Cool J refers to Rakim in his song "The Boomin' System" with the line "Like Rakim said: I wanna move the crowd." Esham mentions Rakim in his song "Stop Selling Me Drugs", referring to the album "Paid In Full." Shad compares himself to Rakim in his song "Yaa I Get It" with the line "No other pro is so proficient/the coldest spittin'/Rakim north pole edition." Reef the Lost Cauze refers to Rakim in his song "I aint no Rapper" with the line "I'm gonna end up in all your top 10s, like G Rap, Big Daddy and Rakim.." Jay-Z refers to the Eric B. & Rakim song "Eric B. Is President" in his song The Watcher 2 with the line "'Til I came through the door, Like "Eric B. for Pres," respect me in this BITCH!"". Slaughterhouse rap "Lyrical Murderer, Blame Rakim" in their song "Lyrical Murderers" in reference to his huge influence over the rap supergroup's famed lyricism. Nas mentions Eric B. & Rakim song "Eric B. Is President" in his song 'Who Killed It?' off his album Hip Hop Is Dead with the line "Your conspiracy theories won't work without evidence, that's the reason Eric B is not President" Warren G uses the line "cause i don't like to dream about getting paid." from Paid In Full in his song "This D.J." Phife from A Tribe Called Quest in "Steve Biko (Stir It Up)" said "Back in the day my favorite jam was Eric B For President." |
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| Author: | Classic Rock Junkie [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
That just proves praise and popularity within the rap industry, doesn't prove he's a better lyricist than any of these other guys. I'm not saying he's not a better lyricist, just saying that quote has literally nothing to say about his lyrical ability except 'rap artists say he's the best lyricist, so do others in the industry, look at all these people who have coveered/sampled his stuff' People say Dave Grohl is one of the best rock drummers in the industry, and I can tell you right now he sucks. Needs a better argument, that's all. |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Then apparently you didnt read through it all. |
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| Author: | Brian [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
I think Neg's quote is a better argument than most of us have been making, because it shows his recognition within the industry, which is a lot more objective than trying to judge the lyrics ourselves. It would be good to know where it came from; it looks like wikipedia. Since hip hop is a huge genre and is very lyric-oriented, whoever is the greatest hip hop lyricist should be in the top 25. It's hard to be objective on a list like this, but one thing that can be done is to approach the list in a balanced, representative way. |
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| Author: | Negative Creep [ Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
Thank you, that's all I've been trying to say. And yeah that's from wiki. He's referenced in so many songs that it's almost staggering. |
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| Author: | The Man [ Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 100 Greatest Lyricists Of Rock 'n' Roll |
^ That was a good post up there. Point taken, Neg. |
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