So we agree Rakim should be top 25?

James Taylor for top 40, can't believe his name wasn't dropped, man's a genius.

I support that.

Knopfler should certainly be boosted.

So Rakim in 25 is fine. Macca and George need placement I feel before we move on, the Beatles are the Beatles, and their placement debate has been spanning the longest. George is easy top 40, I could put Macca up there too, I don't know, I think they are both top 30 deserving, but I guess I'm one of the only ones, I might just be bias, but performances like She's Leaving Home, Fool on the Hill, Eleanor Rigby, For No One, Here There and Everywhere, Yesterday, The Long and Winding Road, all of those are just such powerful lyrical performances with such rich ability. However, Harrison did more consistantly good material, and had as previously stated, much more linguistic ability, from Taxman and Piggies to Something and While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Idk, we need a decision. I'd say Fagan is currently at 36, right? Push him as the 40 cap and add Rakim, Macca and Harrison somewhere in top 40, I feel they really deserve it.

Top 40 isn't giving Macca and George enough credit, they're top 30. No question about it. (In other words, I'm agreeing with you CRJ)

Macca, because of influence, yes.. I guess... Harrison, I'm not so sure..

I don't have the sense that HArrison has the reputation for being a lyricist at that level. In any case, I'd avoid saying "easy" and "no question", because objectively ranking lyricists with any precision is difficult, and there is always some question.

1. Bob Dylan
2. Neil Young
3. John Lennon
4. Leonard Cohen
5. Bruce Springsteen
6. Jackson Browne
7. Roger Waters
8. Paul Simon
9. Pete Townshend
10. Elvis Costello
11. Joni Mitchell
12. Jim Morrison
13. Ray Davies
14. Chuck Berry
15. Tom Waits
16. Van Morrison
17. Smokey Robinson
18. Lou Reed
19. Bob Marley
20. Morrissey
21. Randy Newman
22. Warren Zevon
23. Rakim
24. Joe Strummer
25. Nick Cave
26. Eminem
27. Eddie Vedder
28. Maynard James Keenan
29. John Fogerty
30. Paul McCartney
31. Peter Gabriel
32. Gordon Lightfoot
33. Kurt Cobain
34. David Bowie
35. Chuck D
36. Cat Stevens
37. Donald Fagen
38. Tom Petty
39. James Taylor
40. George Harrison
41. Bernie Taupin
42. Grandmaster Flash
43. Brian Wilson
44. Jerry Leiber
45. Ian Anderson
46. Suzanne Vega
47. Notorious B.I.G.
48. Tracy Chapman
49. Thom Yorke
50. Jon Anderson

I admit, the last two names are just thrown in there to add a nice round feel to it, but I feel that the top 50 should look something like this.

I actually really like that top 50, looks pretty darn good.

Wowee, Vega is finally on there. I really like that list. Some thoughts:

I don't think Mellencamp is worthy of the Top 50. I'd put Jerry Leiber in his place.

I still feel that Keenan could be lowered. I'd see him around #50. He's just not that popular a name, so I guess he lacks widespread acclaim and influence.

I demand correct spellings for Townshend and Fagen.

On a small note, I think Fagen should take Cat Stevens. I think he takes him in... Well, everything pretty much.. Originality/Creativiy, linguistic ability, critical acclaim, influence(?)...

Keenan not a popular name?! Virtually every metal fan I know knows who he is, along with quite a few non-metal fans.

I didn't say he isn't a popular name. I said he's not that popular a name in comparison to most of the oher names around him. I'd say Tool as a whole lack the overall greatness of any other artist whose main lyricist is in the Top 50 (save perhaps Lightfoot), and therefore his acclaim would not be as widespread as the acclaim of any other lyricist in there. I'm not even convinced that he should be outside the Top 50 anymore but Top 30 really is a stretch as I see it.

I could say the same about Morrisey. Since when have the Smiths been extremely popular? Outside of 80's alt, they aren't that big (but critically, they are known as one of the most important alt/indie bands ever and Morrisey is an underground legend, but Keenan is getting there, he had a huge cult following, especially due to his antic on stage and wigs, but he was a huge deal, and still is for those in the loop, similarly to early Smiths), and the Tool fanbase is much larger than it seems. Also, they've one two grammy's, and grammy's are heavily based on popularity and sales in the industry (I know this as my uncle is on the voting board). Since when is Nick Cave more popular than Tool? Sure he swims lyrical ability circles around Keenan, but Keenan's ability is nothing to scoff at. He has mad ability, arguably the best in modern rock outside of rap this decade, and definitely the best in their own metal genre. He's definitely a better lyricist than Cobain, and seeing a better lyricist lose because Nirvana was a more well known band is stupid. Just because someone is more popular that does not mean they have more acclaim, though Keenan is heavily acclaimed by those who know him, you are right that the numbers are smaller than most on this list. Still, I think his placement is fine, based on all the other criteria as well.