Rank The Hall Of Famers

diane · **Joined:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am **Posts:** 197

Brett Alan wrote:

Rock doesn't have to be uptempo. There are lots of records which are slower than the typical reggae record which everyone agrees are rock. There are lots of artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists. If you want to make a convincing argument that reggae isn't rock, you have to show me something that parts of the definition of rock which reggae lacks.

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

I have to say, I don't like taxonomy arguments, because the whole nature of music is to *flow* anywhere it wants to, and to resist or defy classification. But to answer your question about what reggae lacks that is part of the definition of rock? You can't dance to it. Well, maybe *you* can, but in the 60s when I fell in love with "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker & The Aces, and ran out and bought the 45, all I could do was pat my foot to it. Could not figure out how to dance to it. No American kids could.

diane · **Joined:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am **Posts:** 197

Bruce wrote:

ClashWho wrote:

That's rock 'n' roll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxxVE2FGzFY

No, no, no......
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q_i9GG5wXI[/youtube]

diane · **Joined:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am **Posts:** 197

Bruce wrote:

dianeemuller wrote:

She surely deserved induction more than those two people with the initials P.S. did!

Should we take Paul Simon out?

LOL!!!! God forbid!!!! That's what I get for trying to be clever. :durr:

I meant Patti Smith and Percy Sledge.

diane · **Joined:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am **Posts:** 197

01 Carl Perkins
02 Paul Simon
03 The Doors
04 Pink Floyd
05 Cream
06 The Drifters
07 The Kinks
08 The Byrds
09 Fleetwood Mac
10 Elton John

I find myself now voting for people who sold a shitload of records but (from my point of view) diluted and pop-ified the music to the point where it has no relationship to the rock & roll music that swept me away in my childhood.

Also, I'm not voting for many of my *favorite* artists (Muddy Waters, Hank Williams, Joe Turner, Clyde McPhatter, Hank Ballard, etc.), either because they are IMO clearly *not* rock or R&R artists, or because they didn't have enough commercial success or "influentialness" to put them in before people like Fleetwood Mac or Elton John.

So IOW this isn't going to be much fun for me anymore, plus I can't really be objective about artists I actively dislike.

Once we got to Madonna and Prince I knew it was time for me to get off the bus. Thanks for driving it and inviting me on.

Sampson · **Joined:** Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:35 pm **Posts:** 1657

dianeemuller wrote:

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot.

Bruce · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:29 pm

Sampson wrote:

dianeemuller wrote:

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot.

They had plenty of uptempo records. Listen to the wild sax break on "Getting Tired, Tired Tired."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZJ5br1a7y0[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoUqO37d ... 94DEFE8423

"Happy Go Lucky Local Blues" is a rocker too, don;t see it on youtube though.

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:21 pm **Posts:** 13572

Quote:

the whole nature of music is to *flow* anywhere it wants to, and to resist or defy classification.

I agree there 100%. Well-put.

diane · **Joined:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am **Posts:** 197

Bruce wrote:

Sampson wrote:

dianeemuller wrote:

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot.

They had plenty of uptempo records. Listen to the wild sax break on "Getting Tired, Tired Tired."

"Happy Go Lucky Local Blues" is a rocker too, don;t see it on youtube though.

I immediately thought of this one:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6haf6jywLp0[/youtube]

Bruce · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:38 pm

dianeemuller wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Sampson wrote:

dianeemuller wrote:

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot.

They had plenty of uptempo records. Listen to the wild sax break on "Getting Tired, Tired Tired."

"Happy Go Lucky Local Blues" is a rocker too, don;t see it on youtube though.

I immediately thought of this one:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6haf6jywLp0[/youtube]

That's the best thing they ever did IMO, but it's an unissued track from 1955. Sounds more like the Clovers than the Orioles.

I guess Sampson only knows 15-20 Orioles songs if he thinks the "never" did anything fast. They released about 50 singles (100 songs) on Jubilee alone, not to mention later stuff and unissued things.

McMurphy · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:45 pm

1.Muddy Waters
2.U2
3.Pink Floyd
4.Elton John
5.The Supremes
6.Queen
7.David Bowie
8.The Clash
9.Sly & The Family Stone
10.Bill Haley & The Comets

diane · **Joined:** Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:42 am **Posts:** 197

Sampson wrote:

dianeemuller wrote:

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

Sonny Til & The Orioles never got very fast. I KNOW Bruce considers them rock (rightfully so) and if one of the founding rock groups, not to mention one of the most influential ever, had basically the same tempo songs, particularly in their hit songs and that tempo was slow, it kind of makes this point of his moot.

And I think of them more as *transitional* artists between 40s R&B and 50s R&R. Really have more in common with groups like the Ink Spots, Charioteers, or Four Vagabonds than they do with, say, Hank Ballard & The Midnighters. But still, a big influence on many R&B and soul artists to follow....and Sonny Til was a sex symbol long before Elvis came along. Maybe he was the first "rock star"....pretty sure women weren't throwing their underwear at Bill Kenny!

Other "transitional" artists, but these are unjustly ignored by the HOF, include Wynonie Harris, Roy Brown, Roy Milton, and Amos Milburn in R&B, and Moon Mullican in country.

ClashWho · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 11:24 pm

Bruce wrote:

Can you show me ANYPLACE other than this site where SOMEONE says that reggae is a subgenre of rock?

http://rockhall.com/inductees/bob-marley/bio/

Brett Alan · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:17 pm **Posts:** 6333

ClashWho wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Can you show me ANYPLACE other than this site where SOMEONE says that reggae is a subgenre of rock?

http://rockhall.com/inductees/bob-marley/bio/

Yeah, that's a good start.

I mean--I don't know how many people go around listing the subgenres of rock, or defining what is and isn't included, in so many words. But everyone who makes a list of the greatest artists or albums or whatever in rock seems to include Bob Marley, and often other reggae artists. That's true whether it's the Hall of Fame, or Rolling Stone, or even DDD. I've never noticed anyone questioning Marley's place on any of our rock lists.

Again, everything that defines rock is included in Marley's records.

Brett Alan · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:17 pm **Posts:** 6333

dianeemuller wrote:

Brett Alan wrote:

Rock doesn't have to be uptempo. There are lots of records which are slower than the typical reggae record which everyone agrees are rock. There are lots of artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists. If you want to make a convincing argument that reggae isn't rock, you have to show me something that parts of the definition of rock which reggae lacks.

Who are the "artists who never sped the tempo up much who are unquestionably rock artists?" All I can come up with is CS&N.

When did Traffic play anything at a really fast tempo? Or the Grateful Dead? I'm not saying everything those bands played were slow ballads, but I don't think their relatively uptempo stuff was any faster than Marley's relatively uptempo stuff. I suspect there are other prog and jam-band artists who are in the same boat. I've heard indie-rock bands over the years who kept the tempo down, too.

dianeemuller wrote:

I have to say, I don't like taxonomy arguments, because the whole nature of music is to *flow* anywhere it wants to, and to resist or defy classification. But to answer your question about what reggae lacks that is part of the definition of rock? You can't dance to it. Well, maybe *you* can, but in the 60s when I fell in love with "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker & The Aces, and ran out and bought the 45, all I could do was pat my foot to it. Could not figure out how to dance to it. No American kids could.

Well, "The Israelites" doesn't strike me as a danceable record, that's true. But that doesn't mean it's typical of reggae. Lots of Marley's stuff is very danceable, and on his later albums he started to embrace disco as an influence ("Buffalo Soldier", "Exodus"). And more contemporary reggae is very dance-oriented.

Bruce · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 1:32 am

Brett Alan wrote:

But everyone who makes a list of the greatest artists or albums or whatever in rock seems to include Bob Marley, and often other reggae artists.

There's no Marley on this list:

In issue 35 of Classic Rock Magazine (December 2001), a list was published of the 100 greatest rock albums of all time, according to its writers and editors. The rules: no live albums, no compilations and no more than two albums per artists. Here are the results. Enjoy!

http://rateyourmusic.com/lists/list_vie ... 25&start=0

No Marley on this list:

# Top 100: Best Rock Albums of All-Time

1. Dark Side of the Moon
Pink Floyd [1973] >>
2. Led Zeppelin IV
Led Zeppelin [1971] >>
3. Cosmo's Factory
Creedence Clearwater Revival [1970] >>
4. Led Zeppelin II
Led Zeppelin [1969] >>
5. Abbey Road
The Beatles [1969] >>
6. The Beatles (White Album)
The Beatles [1968] >>
7. Machine Head
Deep Purple [1972] >>
8. Electric Ladyland
Jimi Hendrix [1968]
9. Cheap Thrills
Big Brother and the Holding Company [1968]
10. Shazam
The Move [1970]
11. Please Please Me
The Beatles [1963] >>
12. Green River
Creedence Clearwater Revival [1969] >>
13. The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
David Bowie [1972]
14. Willy and the Poor Boys
Creedence Clearwater Revival [1969]
15. Smash Hits
Tom Jones [1967]
16. 1990
The Temptations [1973]
17. Led Zeppelin III
Led Zeppelin [1970]
18. Band on the Run
Paul McCartney [1973]
19. Lucifer's Friend
Lucifer's Friend [1970]
20. Dusty in Memphis
Dusty Springfield [1968]
21. We're Only in It for the Money
Frank Zappa [1968]
22. Harvest
Neil Young [1972]
23. Don't Be Fooled by the Name
Geordie [1974]
24. Young and Rich
The Tubes [1976]
25. What's Goin' on
Marvin Gaye [1971]
26. Days of Future Passed
The Moody Blues [1967]
27. Live (at Edmonton)
Procol Harum [1972]
28. Northern Lights — Southern Cross
The Band [1975]
29. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
The Beatles [1967] >>
30. Love Rustler
Delbert McClinton [1977] >>
31. Moondance
Van Morrison [1970]
32. Wish You Were Here
Pink Floyd [1975]
33. Vol. 4
Black Sabbath [1972]
34. Beggar's Banquet
The Rolling Stones [1968]
35. Janis Ian
Janis Ian [1967]
36. Stand Up
Jethro Tull [1969]
37. Shine on Brightly
Procol Harum [1968]
38. Piledriver
Status Quo [1972]
39. Desire
Bob Dylan [1976]
40. Fireball
Deep Purple [1971]
41. Rick Danko
Rick Danko [1977]
42. Meddle
Pink Floyd [1971]
43. Aqualung
Jethro Tull [1971]
44. The Second Damnation
The Damnation of Adam Blessing [1970]
45. Grand Hotel
Procol Harum [1973]
46. Nebraska
Bruce Springsteen [1982]
47. Short Stories
Harry Chapin [1974]
48. Abraxas
Santana [1970]
49. Everything Must Go
Manic Street Preachers [1996]
50. Naturally
J.J. Cale [1972]
51. Who's Next
The Who [1971]
52. Hotel California
The Eagles [1976]
53. Physical Graffiti
Led Zeppelin [1975]
54. Bayou Country
Creedence Clearwater Revival [1969]
55. Good Old Boys
Randy Newman [1974]
56. Slayed?
Slade [1972]
57. Blonde on Blonde
Bob Dylan [1966]
58. Born in the U.S.A.
Bruce Springsteen [1984]
59. Forever Changes
Love [1967]
60.Led Zeppelin I
Led Zeppelin [1969]
62. Born to Run
Bruce Springsteen [1975]
62. Planet Waves
Bob Dylan [1974]
63. Innervisions
Stevie Wonder [1973]
64. Revolver
The Beatles [1966]
65. Exile on Main Street
The Rolling Stones [1972]
66. Highway 61 Revisited
Bob Dylan [1965]
67. Excerpts from the Belafonte Carnegie Hall Concert
Harry Belafonte [1959]
68. Auberge
Chris Rea [1991]
69. Breakfast in America
Supertramp [1979]
70. The Doors
The Doors [1967]
71. Creedence Clearwater Revival
Creedence Clearwater Revival [1968]
72. The Velvet Underground
The Velvet Underground & Nico [1967]
73. Blue Lines
Massive Attack [1991]
74. The River
Bruce Springsteen [1980]
75. Solar Fire
Manfred Mann's Earth Band [1973]
76. Disraeli Gears
Cream [1967]
77. Pet Sounds
The Beach Boys [1966]
78. Stranger in the City
John Miles [1976]
79. In Rock
Deep Purple [1970]
80. The Unforgettable Fire
U2 [1984]
81. I Believe
Mahalia Jackson [1955]
82. Boulders
Roy Wood [1973]
83. Fly Like an Eagle
Steve Miller Band [1976]
84. Mystery Girl
Roy Orbison [1989]
85. Bob Till You Drop
Ry Cooder [1979]
86. Astral Weeks
Van Morrison [1968]
87. Between the Lines
Janis Ian [1975]
88. Billion Dollar Babies
Alice Cooper [1973]
89. John Fogerty
John Fogerty [1975]
90. Sticky Fingers
The Rolling Stones [1971]
91. Razamanaz
Nazareth [1973]
92. Straight Shooter
Bad Company [1975]
93. Yeah!
Brownsville Station [1973]
94. 461 Ocean Bouleward
Eric Clapton [1974]
95. Rumours
Fleetwood Mac [1977]
96. Blue Ridge Rangers
Blue Ridge Rangers [John Fogerty] [1973]
97. Thriller
Michael Jackson [1982]
98. Brothers in Arms
Dire Straits [1985]
99. Demons and Wizards
Uriah Heep [1972]
100. The Slider
T.Rex [1972]

No Marley on this list of the top 61 Rock artists of all time:

http://rockmusiclists.wetpaint.com/page ... f+All-Time

Rank The Hall Of Famers

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