Most Influential Rock Artists

Bruce · **Posted:** Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:22 pm

Musicfan67 wrote:

Bruce wrote:

[quote="Musicfan67] When you say first rap and hip hop records were all by black artists. Are you claiming them as full genres or part of rock and roll?[/quote]

They are part of rock and roll, but part of the black style of rock and roll, just like soul and funk and disco were. All those sub-genres originated as 100% black styles of rock and roll where whites eventually got on the band wagon.

The first soul records were all by black artists.
The first funk records were all by black artists.
The first disco records were all by black artists.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

That's fine and I never denied what you are saying above. I don't want to make this a black and white thing. The experimental and progressive aspect of rock music by white rockers influenced black musicians also. Black musicians from Otis Redding, Jimi Hendrix, George Clinton, and Stevie Wonder was especially fascinated by Sgt.Pepper for example. In fact Otis Redding wrote one of his greatest songs (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay" soon after listening to The Beatles album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, which had just been released. Shortly before he started recording "Dock of the Bay," Redding alluded to it as an extension of the Beatles' music

If you read this comment by Stevie Wonder then you know what I mean.

"The Beatles made me feel that I could do some of the ideas I had. Every time one of their records came out I wanted to have it, particularly after "Eleanor Rigby". I just dug the effects they got, like echoes, the voice things, the writing. Like "For the Benefit of Mr. Kite". I just said "Why Can't I"? I wanted to do something else, go other places".

Stevie Wonder : Musician by Jeremy K. Brown[/quote]

I don't understand the relevancy of your comment. Nobody is claiming that black musicians were not influenced by white musicians. Jackie Wilson;s favorite artist was Al Jolson. Howlin' Wolf loved Jimmie Rodgers. Most of the musical instruments that musicains play were invented by white people.

The point here is that throughout history blacks have originated several genres and sub-genres that whites have later became part of.

Whether or not YOU want to make it a black and white thing, a lot of this is a black and white thing. The typical black singer or musician sounds very different from the typical white singer or musician. If there were truly no difference between blacks and whites this would not be so.

Whether it's 100 cultural or part genetic you can't deny that most black artists sound very different from most white artists. Sure you'll get your occasional Charley Pride or Teena Marie, but by and large black and white artists sound completely different.

Musicfan67 · **Joined:** Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:44 am **Posts:** 402

Bruce wrote:

Musicfan67 wrote:

Bruce wrote:

[quote="Musicfan67] When you say first rap and hip hop records were all by black artists. Are you claiming them as full genres or part of rock and roll?[/quote]

They are part of rock and roll, but part of the black style of rock and roll, just like soul and funk and disco were. All those sub-genres originated as 100% black styles of rock and roll where whites eventually got on the band wagon.

The first soul records were all by black artists.
The first funk records were all by black artists.
The first disco records were all by black artists.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

That's fine and I never denied what you are saying above. I don't want to make this a black and white thing. The experimental and progressive aspect of rock music by white rockers influenced black musicians also. Black musicians from Otis Redding, Jimi Hendrix, George Clinton, and Stevie Wonder was especially fascinated by Sgt.Pepper for example. In fact Otis Redding wrote one of his greatest songs (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay" soon after listening to The Beatles album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, which had just been released. Shortly before he started recording "Dock of the Bay," Redding alluded to it as an extension of the Beatles' music

If you read this comment by Stevie Wonder then you know what I mean.

"The Beatles made me feel that I could do some of the ideas I had. Every time one of their records came out I wanted to have it, particularly after "Eleanor Rigby". I just dug the effects they got, like echoes, the voice things, the writing. Like "For the Benefit of Mr. Kite". I just said "Why Can't I"? I wanted to do something else, go other places".

Stevie Wonder : Musician by Jeremy K. Brown[/quote][/quote][/quote]

I don't understand the relevancy of your comment. Nobody is claiming that black musicians were not influenced by white musicians. Jackie Wilson;s favorite artist was Al Jolson. Howlin' Wolf loved Jimmie Rodgers. Most of the musical instruments that musicains play were invented by white people.

The point here is that throughout history blacks have originated several genres and sub-genres that whites have later became part of.

Whether or not YOU want to make it a black and white thing, a lot of this is a black and white thing. The typical black singer or musician sounds very different from the typical white singer or musician. If there were truly no difference between blacks and whites this would not be so.

Whether it's 100 cultural or part genetic you can't deny that most black artists sound very different from most white artists. Sure you'll get your occasional Charley Pride or Teena Marie, but by and large black and white artists sound completely different.[/quote]

Ok, I agree with you on this. Peace.

ClashWho · **Posted:** Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Musicfan67 wrote:

I wonder how some of the people feel about Country Rock in it's relation to rockabilly. Of course rock and roll and country music have had a strong relationship basically from the start. Yet there are subtle differences between country rock and rockabilly.

Near as I can tell, country rock is just rock sung with a southern twang. Rockabilly is a truer melding of various styles.

Musicfan67 wrote:

Well getting back to Country Rock. The country influenced rock of the mid 60's did cement the bridge between country and rock at a time when rock music was moving further away from the country influenced in rock 'n' roll. Of course you know who I think was a key band in this movement and I don't mean just the Byrds or Bob Dylan either it was that band from the other side of the pond.

Ah, yes. The Rolling Stones.

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:04 pm **Posts:** 733

Musicfan67 wrote:

When you say first rap and hip hop records were all by black artists. Are you claiming them as full genres or part of rock and roll?

Full genres? I'm guessing you meant "a separate genre."

Musicfan67 wrote:

Ok, I agree with you on this. Peace.

So are you agreeing to the fact that rap is a part of the rock umbrella? That R&B is rock? Or were you just agreeing to the notion that "most blacks sound different than whites?" Or all of the above?

Musicfan67 · **Joined:** Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:44 am **Posts:** 402

J.B. Trance wrote:

Musicfan67 wrote:

When you say first rap and hip hop records were all by black artists. Are you claiming them as full genres or part of rock and roll?

Full genres? I'm guessing you meant "a separate genre."

Musicfan67 wrote:

Ok, I agree with you on this. Peace.

So are you agreeing to the fact that rap is a part of the rock umbrella? That R&B is rock? Or were you just agreeing to the notion that "most blacks sound different than whites?" Or all of the above?

In all honesty I don't care if it's a separate genre or not. If anything some people get offended if they call hip-hop a full genre and not rock and roll. I don't get it to be honest. It's actually a compliment in saying it's a different genre in terms of innovation. To me rock and roll falls under the umbrella of pop music and so does hip-hop.

As for blacks sounding different than whites. I will say this I don't listen to music to hear if a person is a black or white. I listen to music if I like it. Get this this listen to Public Enemy "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back" is as avant garde as it is hip-hop one of my favorite albums. I don't think wow a bunch of black rappers using avant garde influeces. I think wow that was great. PEACE.

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:04 pm **Posts:** 733

musicfan67 wrote:

To me rock and roll falls under the umbrella of pop music and so does hip-hop.

Well, of course. Rock is a part of popular music.

Anyways, answer me directly. Were you agreeing that rap is a part of the rock umbrella or not when you said you "OK I agree with you on this"?

Quote:

As for blacks sounding different than whites. I will say this I don't listen to music to hear if a person is a black or white.

I don't either, but that's not my point. I was asking what specifically you agreed with in that response.

Quote:

Get this this listen to Public Enemy "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back"

What makes you think I haven't heard this already? And yes, I agree, it's a great listen.

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:04 pm **Posts:** 733

Musicfan67 wrote:

When you say first rap and hip hop records were all by black artists. Are you claiming them as full genres or part of rock and roll?

Rap/hip-hop are not "full genres" (with emphasis on the "s"). It's a single genre in the same boat.

gminer · **Joined:** Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:17 pm **Posts:** 2949

Musicfan67 wrote:

J.B. Trance wrote:

Musicfan67 wrote:

When you say first rap and hip hop records were all by black artists. Are you claiming them as full genres or part of rock and roll?

Full genres? I'm guessing you meant "a separate genre."

Musicfan67 wrote:

Ok, I agree with you on this. Peace.

So are you agreeing to the fact that rap is a part of the rock umbrella? That R&B is rock? Or were you just agreeing to the notion that "most blacks sound different than whites?" Or all of the above?

In all honesty I don't care if it's a separate genre or not. If anything some people get offended if they call hip-hop a full genre and not rock and roll. I don't get it to be honest. It's actually a compliment in saying it's a different genre in terms of innovation. To me rock and roll falls under the umbrella of pop music and so does hip-hop.

As for blacks sounding different than whites. I will say this I don't listen to music to hear if a person is a black or white. I listen to music if I like it. Get this this listen to Public Enemy "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back" is as avant garde as it is hip-hop one of my favorite albums. I don't think wow a bunch of black rappers using avant garde influeces. I think wow that was great. PEACE.

... it is also interesting how much different the Irish sound from southerners in the US ..... and it has absolutely nothing to do with skin colour ... just as you might have an Irish born black singer who had lived in Ireland all their life and if you didn`t have any photo information one would have no idea the colour of their skin based on their voice .... Take care

Bruce · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:06 pm

Musicfan67 wrote:

As for blacks sounding different than whites. I will say this I don't listen to music to hear if a person is a black or white.

You may not listen for that reason, but I'd bet that you could correctly identify the race of an artist over 90% of the time just based upon what he sounds like.

And it's not like this is getting harder to do over time as you would expect as different styles all come together. There were more black and white artists that sounded similar in the 20s and 30s than there are now. Many of the bands of those days sounded a lot alike, and even many vocalists. Sophie Tucker and Ethel Waters sound similar on several records. They even did a lot of the same songs.

Bruce · **Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:10 pm

gminer wrote:

... it is also interesting how much different the Irish sound from southerners in the US

Yes it is, but you are referring to their speaking voices. Once they start singing most Irish singers (Van Morrison) don't sound any different than many American southerners (Wayne Cochran).

Although white southerners and black southeners sound very different, whether singing or just speaking.

gminer · **Joined:** Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:17 pm **Posts:** 2949

Bruce wrote:

gminer wrote:

... it is also interesting how much different the Irish sound from southerners in the US

Yes it is, but you are referring to their speaking voices. Once they start singing most Irish singers (Van Morrison) don't sound any different than many American southerners (Wayne Cochran).

Although white southerners and black southeners sound very different, whether singing or just speaking.

... that is incorrect as it has nothing to do with a person`s ethnic origins ..... there is no such thing as a black or white race .... there is more biological diversity between males and females than people with diferent skin colours ... and there is not a male race and a female race .... there is only the human race ... and singing voices/notes do not know skin pigment unless slanged by accent ..... Take care

Bruce · **Posted:** Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:33 am

Musicfan67 wrote:

ClashWho wrote:

Elvis Presley, along with Scotty Moore and Bill Black, originated rockabilly. Say what you will about the rhythm & blues of the late forties and early to mid-fifties, it ain't rockabilly. I know you cited Hank Williams as the originator of rockabilly, but I and others disagree. Elvis Presley's Sun Sessions are the birth of rockabilly.

As for blacks resenting Elvis Presley, maybe they ought to figure out that the perception that there are different "races" within the human race is a false one. Resenting Elvis Presley because of the color of his skin is as overtly racist a mind-set as there can be.

Interesting from the Rockabilly Hall Of Fame in which Bill Haley is in. I find it interesting it's only on this site that I read some of the craziest opinions on who is influential or who is not. Sounds to me that Bill Haley is extremely overlooked IMO. This doesn't make Bill Haley the most influential rock artist because rock and roll has long moved away from rockabilly and 50's rock and roll a long time ago. Some of you guys are completely forgetting Bill Haley impact before Elvis or Chuck Berry even arrived on the scene.

Bill Haley Firsts

First band leader to form a Rock 'n' Roll group.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to write his own music.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to reach the national charts with music he wrote and recorded.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to own his own music publishing companies.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to own his own record label and recording comoany.
First white artist to be elected as the "Rhythm & Blues Personality of the Year."
First Rock 'n' Roll star to sell a million records.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to receive a gold rcord.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to go on a world tour.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to sell a million records in England.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to star in a full length motion picture.
First white Rock 'n' Roll star to tour with all-black supporting artists.
First Rock 'n' Roll star to appear on a network televison show.

The Rockabilly Hall Of Fame is an absolute joke and most of these so called "firsts" are not correct. All you have to do is look at some of the preposterous artists that are in the "rockabilly" hall of fame and you can see it's a farce. Milt Trenier, Sandy Nelson, Sue Thompson, Jimmie Rodgers and Clarence "Frogman" Henry are in the "Rockabilly" hall of fame. Enough said? The guy who started it doesn't know rockabilly from his cock.

There were plenty of bandleaders who had rock and roll groups before Haley, including Joe Liggins and Roy Milton.

There were tons of rock and roll artists writing their own music before Haley, including Fats Domino and Amos Milburn and Percy Mayfield.

There were rock and roll artists who reached the national (pop) charts with songs they wrote before Haley, including Billy Ward and the Dominoes with "Sixty Minute man."

There were other rock and roll artists who had their own record company before Haley including Roy Milton (what label did haley supposedly own by the way?).

Who supposedly selected haley as the "rhythm and blues personality of the year?" Never heard of that.

There were several rock and roll stars who had a million selling record before haley including Fats Domino and Lloyd Price.

Bruce · **Posted:** Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:38 am

gminer wrote:

Bruce wrote:

gminer wrote:

... it is also interesting how much different the Irish sound from southerners in the US

Yes it is, but you are referring to their speaking voices. Once they start singing most Irish singers (Van Morrison) don't sound any different than many American southerners (Wayne Cochran).

Although white southerners and black southeners sound very different, whether singing or just speaking.

... that is incorrect as it has nothing to do with a person`s ethnic origins ..... there is no such thing as a black or white race .... there is more biological diversity between males and females than people with diferent skin colours ... and there is not a male race and a female race .... there is only the human race ... and singing voices/notes do not know skin pigment unless slanged by accent ..... Take care

Scientists have proven that people of western african descent have genetic advantages that make them run faster than other people. The 100 fastest times ever run the 100 meter dash are ALL from people of western African descent. If that genetic difference exists, why can't a genetic difference also exist with voices?

Different genetic mutations occur through nature as human beings adapt to their environment. It's certainly possible that nature had a reason for causing different size nostrils, head shapes, etc...that could cause a different vocal sound for human beings from certain parts of the world.

Bruce · **Posted:** Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:54 am

Should this act be on this list?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvGjnyzMsws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_xqJjJHRQ

gminer · **Joined:** Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:17 pm **Posts:** 2949

Quote:

... that is incorrect as it has nothing to do with a person`s ethnic origins ..... there is no such thing as a black or white race .... there is more biological diversity between males and females than people with diferent skin colours ... and there is not a male race and a female race .... there is only the human race ... and singing voices/notes do not know skin pigment unless slanged by accent ..... Take care

Quote:

Scientists have proven that people of western african descent have genetic advantages that make them run faster than other people. The 100 fastest times ever run the 100 meter dash are ALL from people of western African descent. If that genetic difference exists, why can't a genetic difference also exist with voices?

Different genetic mutations occur through nature as human beings adapt to their environment. It's certainly possible that nature had a reason for causing different size nostrils, head shapes, etc...that could cause a different vocal sound for human beings from certain parts of the world.

...your premise based on eugenics is incorrect which leads to false conclusions ... such as your assertion a person sounds black ... there is little point to this debate as you could shave my head and call me Adolf but I not buying the Bell Curve ..... Take care

Most Influential Rock Artists

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