2014 World Cup (Brasil)

Eric J · **Joined:** Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:07 am **Posts:** 7010

Eric J wrote:

Where does Tim Howard rank amongst the goalkeepers of the world?

Hang · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:04 am **Posts:** 3756

Eric J wrote:

Where does Tim Howard rank amongst the goalkeepers of the world?

Not very high. He's a quality keeper but there's about 20 guys off the top of my head who are more outstanding keepers.

wantabodylikeme · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:32 am

Hang wrote:

wantabodylikeme wrote:

I don't know, possession doesn't seem that overrated to me. To me it basically means "I'm owning you". Unless there are teams that follow the Rocky Balboa technique and let the other team have the ball for awhile. But that didn't seem the case of the U.S., more they were getting owned by faster and more skilled black dudes.

Against a well organised defence, possession can be very overrated and we've had many great examples over the past few years with a lot of teams that hold the ball well (Barcelona, Spain, Bayern) and a lot of teams that defend well (Chelsea, Inter). You may have heard the term "park the bus", which essentially means you put all 11 players behind the ball (putting a bus in front of the goal), and when you get it, you don't commit to many forward and basically give it back and let the team come at you, hoping to score a lucky goal on the counter. The difficult thing about parking the bus is that it relies on an incredible amount of discipline and luck. As you point out, what you saw today was neither of those examples. Ghana did have high possession but it wasn't really in good areas and USA defended well but were lucky.

Actually I've never heard the term before, thanks for the info. Any good examples you can pull out perhaps via youtube of this technique? Don't mean to put you on the spot.

Hang · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:04 am **Posts:** 3756

wantabodylikeme wrote:

Hang wrote:

wantabodylikeme wrote:

I don't know, possession doesn't seem that overrated to me. To me it basically means "I'm owning you". Unless there are teams that follow the Rocky Balboa technique and let the other team have the ball for awhile. But that didn't seem the case of the U.S., more they were getting owned by faster and more skilled black dudes.

Against a well organised defence, possession can be very overrated and we've had many great examples over the past few years with a lot of teams that hold the ball well (Barcelona, Spain, Bayern) and a lot of teams that defend well (Chelsea, Inter). You may have heard the term "park the bus", which essentially means you put all 11 players behind the ball (putting a bus in front of the goal), and when you get it, you don't commit to many forward and basically give it back and let the team come at you, hoping to score a lucky goal on the counter. The difficult thing about parking the bus is that it relies on an incredible amount of discipline and luck. As you point out, what you saw today was neither of those examples. Ghana did have high possession but it wasn't really in good areas and USA defended well but were lucky.

Actually I've never heard the term before, thanks for the info. Any good examples you can pull out perhaps via youtube of this technique? Don't mean to put you on the spot.

The best recent examples have involved Jose Mourinho (current Chelsea coach) -
Chelsea vs Barcelona 2012 champions league semi final - http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/04/25/ ... a-tactics/
Inter vs Barcelona 2010 champions league semi final - http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/04/28/ ... o-tactics/

zonalmarking.net is the best website for explanation of tactics. As far as youtube goes, I don't think highlights are the best way to show the tactic because it really is a marathon tactic but if you look up the highlights of either of those two games you might get an idea. Italy are historically one of the better defensive teams - before parking the bus, the Italians had "catenaccio", which they would implement to ensure they didn't concede once they got in front.

Georgi · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:37 pm **Posts:** 9165

There's nothing inherently wrong with possession football, because as it's best, it's also the ultimate defensive tool. If you have the ball, the other team cannot score. Of course it can fail if you're too slow with the passing and don't take enough risks and you're up against an well organised defence. Counter attacking teams can also get unstuck though.

Anpass · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:13 am

Georgi wrote:

If you have the ball, the other team cannot score.

so very exciting that. especially when played against a park the bus defense. this strategy is only possible because draws exist. the one thing i dislike about football, draws.

Forgotten Son · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:22 am

Georgi wrote:

Of course it can fail if you're too slow with the passing and don't take enough risks and you're up against an well organised defence.

See: the turgid Nigeria vs Iran yesterday.

Georgi · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:37 pm **Posts:** 9165

That was so boring that I turned to ironing my shirts.

Hang · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:04 am **Posts:** 3756

I didn't think the match was that bad, admittedly I wasn't paying full attention to it, but for a 0-0 it was a pretty wide open match. Iran didn't have a whole lot going forward and Nigeria were a bit tentative but it wasn't that boring.

kosherrock · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:35 pm **Posts:** 3187

Georgi wrote:

That was so boring that I turned to ironing my shirts.

I took my family to the pool after the first 20...recorded in the event someone hit a wonder strike.

also the us' next opponent, Portugal, showed flashes of brilliance in build-up play. they worked two semi-decent chances in or around the box, but the finishing just wasn't there and ronaldo was taking horrendous shots. don't just look at the bottom line score, because the us isn't Germany. when you're looking at an opposition that is more talented you have to look at what they were doing right, and it wasn't all bad against Germany.

it's not a good match-up for the us if yesterday was any indication of how both teams will play. portugal's best bets were nani and Ronaldo going up the wings. the us looked best offensively when Beasley and Johnson came up from the wings in support, with the former not getting back quick enough to cover, and that's Ronaldo's side, and you saw the effect it could/should have if Ghana could finish. I just can't envision the states getting away with what they did yesterday when someone like Ronaldo has a clear match-up in his favor, as if he needs one.

kosherrock · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:35 pm **Posts:** 3187

Jess wrote:

kosherrock wrote:

he's an upgrade to jozy for sure. Bradley just needs to be the guy making the final
pass because bedoya isn't good enough to make the necessary passes.

What has johansson shown that Jozy hasn't?

over the last year? that he can score. jozy has Torres syndrome...like no matter what the opportunity, he won't put the ball in the net. he had a golden opportunity and shot the ball directly into the only half of the goal that was being covered. he's a clown.

Georgi · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:37 pm **Posts:** 9165

That Torres miss in the Holland game was amazing. Torres gonna Torres. :lol:

Led for your Head · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:20 am

Eric J wrote:

Where does Tim Howard rank amongst the goalkeepers of the world?

He's in the discussion for top ten, I'd say, but he is probably the most important keeper in relation to his team's success, if that makes sense.

kosherrock · **Joined:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:35 pm **Posts:** 3187

that was an embarrassing miss. he had 24x8ft of cage wide open 3 yards in front oh him.

Forgotten Son · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:56 am

Georgi wrote:

That was so boring that I turned to ironing my shirts.

I minimised it and started browsing various fora and just having it on in the background was boring me to tears.

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