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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Shouldn't a few X-Japan songs be on here? Tracks like "Tears", "Endless Rain" and "Say Anything" were absolutely huge in Asia and are pretty well known in the west these days as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Their most famous song is probably "Endless Rain" or "Tears". Their most ambitious and most acclaimed piece of work is the 30 minute epic "Art of Life". It was the only song on the album, which was a huge hit.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:39 pm 
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To save you the time :razz: :

Endless Rain - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXhQ3t-qsoM

Tears - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNybXzqb-g

Say Anything - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVw513pyWBY

Art of Life part's 1, 2 and 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69b2Q0j ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7w67j3r ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=459pXQHV ... re=related


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:44 am 
As a huge Metallica fan I have to say that Orion should be on the list. It has epic bass guitar playing, an epic intro and just all around a great song all the way through the 8 minutes. That bass intro is just legendary in the metal world and has a couple bass solos along with a couple guitar solos. I would recommend it. The Call of Ktulu is another epic Metallica instrumental song but then again Metallica has a lot of epics. I don't think For Whom the Bell Tolls meets the requirements but the bass riff intro is just awesomely epic! Love that song.

I completely agree with Master of Puppets being on there and don't forget about Creeping Death, another epic masterpiece in heavy metal. :cheers:

Oh and don't forget about Clenching the Fists of Dissent from the metal band Machine Head. It came out in 2006 and the song is 10 minutes long. It's an epic thrash masterpiece. Check it out if you haven't seen it. One of the best metal songs of the decade.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Timitzii wrote:
I'll check those later, great suggestions. :cheers:


I have one question and this is why I think the Abbey Road Medleys should be higher in terms of innovation and uniqueness. Is the structure a medley or is it really an extended form of music with three large movements or sections of short unrelated songs? There is musical recurring theme on “You Never Give Me Your Money” and “Carry That Weight” other than that it's neither part of concept album nor it is a narrative album like an opera.

I know this has been discussed by many people in prog and there is even a book about its unique structure The Beatles' Abbey Road Medley: Extended Forms in Popular Music Thomas MacFarlane..

In pop music, if you do a medley, you were doing two or more songs together, but only doing a portion of each song, rather than giving each a full rendition.

Thus, very successful artists do a "hits medley" in live performance as a way of getting a whole bunch of songs out of the way without having to sing each individually from beginning to end.

If this definition is valid, then applying "medley" to the suite on side two of Abbey Road would be inaccurate.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Timitzii wrote:
So, what you are trying to say is that "Abbey Road Medley" isn't able to enter the list because it is 'made' of several different pieces?


Quite the opposite I am arguing for it to be higher for this reason it's an innovative extended form of music in it's structure that was unlike anything before it in rock music. Of course it's one piece of music that's how it was planned. It's just differs than other pieces of music that have multiple sections. I like your two lists and I think the idea of the lists are great IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:50 am 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
Timitzii wrote:
So, what you are trying to say is that "Abbey Road Medley" isn't able to enter the list because it is 'made' of several different pieces?


Quite the opposite I am arguing for it to be higher for this reason it's an innovative extended form of music in it's structure that was unlike anything before it in rock music.


"A Quick One While He's Away"


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:01 am 
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Destroyer wrote:
As a huge Metallica fan I have to say that Orion should be on the list.


Yeah, it's awesome, but instrumentals don't count. Notice the lack of "La Villa Strangiatto".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:25 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
Timitzii wrote:
So, what you are trying to say is that "Abbey Road Medley" isn't able to enter the list because it is 'made' of several different pieces?


Quite the opposite I am arguing for it to be higher for this reason it's an innovative extended form of music in it's structure that was unlike anything before it in rock music.


"A Quick One While He's Away"


There not at all alike

"A Quick One While He's Away" a mini opera built in six distinct sections that are of course related to the whole from a narrative point of view. Very progressive in it's structure no doubt. Something that is similiar to that in structure though not a mini rock opera is "Happiness Is A Warm" a song that has four distinct sections but that is only part of the story with that song.

The Abbey Road Medleys a non narrative piece of music built from 8 distinct short and unrelated songs built from three different movements. "You Never Give Me Your Money" that starts the so-called medley part of the suite has four distinct sections. Very progressive in it's scope.

The structure of the Abbey Road Medleys.

Movement I
‘You Never Give Me Your Money”
“Out of College./That Magic Feeling”
“One Sweet Dream”

Movement II
“Sun King/ mean Mr. Mustard”
“Polythene Pam/ She Came in Through the Bathroom Windows’

Movement III
“Golden Slumbers/Carry that Weight”
“The End”

As a twist an intentional hidden track

"Her Majesty"


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Thanks for adding the Rolling Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want." Do y'all agree that it should be bumped up into the Top 100? It seems that its popularity alone would merit it a spot there.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:20 pm 
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:tiphat:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Musicfan67 wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
"A Quick One While He's Away"


There not at all alike


Of course they are.

Musicfan67 wrote:
"A Quick One While He's Away" a mini opera built in six distinct sections that are of course related to the whole from a narrative point of view. Very progressive in it's structure no doubt. Something that is similiar to that in structure though not a mini rock opera is "Happiness Is A Warm" a song that has four distinct sections but that is only part of the story with that song.

The Abbey Road Medleys a non narrative piece of music built from 8 distinct short and unrelated songs built from three different movements. "You Never Give Me Your Money" that starts the so-called medley part of the suite has four distinct sections. Very progressive in it's scope.

The structure of the Abbey Road Medleys.

Movement I
‘You Never Give Me Your Money”
“Out of College./That Magic Feeling”
“One Sweet Dream”

Movement II
“Sun King/ mean Mr. Mustard”
“Polythene Pam/ She Came in Through the Bathroom Windows’

Movement III
“Golden Slumbers/Carry that Weight”
“The End”

As a twist an intentional hidden track

"Her Majesty"


The structure of "A Quick One, While He's Away"

Movement I
"Her Man's Gone/Crying Town"

Movement II
"We Have a Remedy"
"Ivor the Engine Driver"

Movement III
"Soon Be Home"
"You Are Forgiven"

Pre-dates not only Abbey Road, but even Sgt. Pepper's.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:21 am 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
"A Quick One While He's Away"


There not at all alike


Of course they are.

Musicfan67 wrote:
"A Quick One While He's Away" a mini opera built in six distinct sections that are of course related to the whole from a narrative point of view. Very progressive in it's structure no doubt. Something that is similiar to that in structure though not a mini rock opera is "Happiness Is A Warm" a song that has four distinct sections but that is only part of the story with that song.

The Abbey Road Medleys a non narrative piece of music built from 8 distinct short and unrelated songs built from three different movements. "You Never Give Me Your Money" that starts the so-called medley part of the suite has four distinct sections. Very progressive in it's scope.

The structure of the Abbey Road Medleys.

Movement I
‘You Never Give Me Your Money”
“Out of College./That Magic Feeling”
“One Sweet Dream”

Movement II
“Sun King/ mean Mr. Mustard”
“Polythene Pam/ She Came in Through the Bathroom Windows’

Movement III
“Golden Slumbers/Carry that Weight”
“The End”

As a twist an intentional hidden track

"Her Majesty"


The structure of "A Quick One, While He's Away"

Movement I
"Her Man's Gone/Crying Town"

Movement II
"We Have a Remedy"
"Ivor the Engine Driver"

Movement III
"Soon Be Home"
"You Are Forgiven"

Pre-dates not only Abbey Road, but even Sgt. Pepper's.


Do you know what you are talking about? The Abbey Road suite are all separate songs with different movements not one large song with six sections A Quick One, While He's Away" there not seperate songs or do I have explain the difference between a song and distint section? You listed five sections but there is six sections. They are are described in six sections. You can't even call the Abbey Road Medleys as a rock opera or a concept album. I know love the Who but the Abbey Road is unique get over it. As you know I love Pete I have in my top 5 guitarists and the Who did plenty of innovative things but you say Echoes is bad but you're much worse.

A Quick One, While He's Away structure

Harmonized a cappella intro is titled "Her Man's Gone". The "Crying Town" section is sung by Roger Daltrey in an atypical low register. Daltrey also sings "We Have a Remedy" in his more usual voice. John Entwistle plays "Ivor the Engine Driver" in that section. Then comes "Soon Be Home", another harmonized section. Finally, "You Are Forgiven" is sung by Pete Townshend — his only lead vocal on the album (except, on most versions of the album, a small part of "Heat Wave

The Abbey Road Medly as described by the book The Beatles' Abbey Road medley: extended forms in popular music Thomas MacFarlane It's called a three movement structure

Prelude "Because"

Movement I
‘You Never Give Me Your Money”
“Out of College./That Magic Feeling”
“One Sweet Dream”

Movement II
“Sun King/ mean Mr. Mustard”
“Polythene Pam/ She Came in Through the Bathroom Windows’

Movement III
“Golden Slumbers/Carry that Weight”
“The End”

Postlude
"The End"

As for Sgt. Pepper not even a narrative album but I will tell you this the man with the agenda problem who can't see above the clouds.

Sgt Pepper though has classic opera structure of Intro Sgt.Pepper using a reprisal of a recurring theme "Sgt Pepper Reprise and it's encore crossfaded together "A Day in the Life". As for crossfading two seperate songs into one like "Sgt Pepper/With a Little Help From My Friends or "Sgt Pepper Reprise/A Day in the Life" another interesting song structure. Please don't tell Zappa Absolutely Free because the recording procedure is called a hard edit and it's not the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:47 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Musicfan67 wrote:
Timitzii wrote:
So, what you are trying to say is that "Abbey Road Medley" isn't able to enter the list because it is 'made' of several different pieces?


Quite the opposite I am arguing for it to be higher for this reason it's an innovative extended form of music in it's structure that was unlike anything before it in rock music.


"A Quick One While He's Away"


By the way ClashWho I certainly recognize how innovative the structure in terms of rock/pop music though certainly not the first multi-part song but for it's structure maybe the first of it's kind in rock music?

It probably influenced the Beatles Sgt Pepper structure. I love the Who I think Pete is underrated as a guitarist on this forum. The facts are the Abbey Road suite or it's structure is vaguely similar to "A Quick One" or some of Zappa and even the Beatles experiments with multipart songs which started on "We Can Work It Out" and developed in various forms from Sgt Pepper, "I Am the Walrus", "I Am the Walrus" and "Happiness Is A Warm Gun".


Again the Abbey Road suite is built from 8 separate songs with some songs having distinct sections, "You Never Give Me Your Money" for example had four distinct sections, but the separate songs represent three distinct movements. I do hear you about "Quick One" it has three tonal movements within one song. Zappa worked in this way a lot you could hear it plainly on "Absolutely Free the album for example.

The Abbey Road structure has so many tonal movements it would be hard to count. The three structure movement structure of the Abbey Road suite is built from entirely different songs not from tonal movements.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Epics
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:07 pm 
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