Come on now, "couldn't be arsed" - we all know the Champions League is Chelsea's holy grail, that just isn't true.

English teams in Europe are often guilty of extreme tactical naivety, which is worth far more than being the "on paper" better team. Obviously the Premier League is still a very strong league and up there, but I have to take umbrage when Jose says England could have 6 Champions League teams - the performance of English teams since 2009 suggest otherwise. United last year were by far the weakest team in the quarters and would still be comfortably beaten by a lot of Europe's top teams over two legs I reckon. City have been arguably the best domestic team for the last 3 seasons but get routinely dicked on in Europe. Liverpool were embarrassed this year in the groups. Arsenal are regularly a non factor once we get to the knock outs. Chelsea have been pretty strong but even in 2013 they got knocked out in the groups and the last years have seen them not do the business at home in strong positions. Sky's propaganda just isn't that convincing.

I couldn't agree more, there is no evidence to suggest the EPL is the best/strongest league in the world or even Europe. I for one find it very entertaining and enjoy it but I don't believe all this crap about it being the best, the wealthiest yes.

I don't mean in a "Champions League? Meh..." sort of way, rather that the players thought they already had it sewn up before the whistle started, so no one really put in a shift.



Oh I certainly wouldn't agree with the idea that England could have 6 teams seriously competing in the CL. But I don't think recent performances can be explained by the teams being bad per se. I agree on the tactical naivete. English teams seem to think that as a top team in England they'll steamroller most teams in Europe, which leads to lacklustre performances from players, and ill-considered tactics from managers. "We've already won the game on away goals lads, just don't concede a single goal", "We have one of the best striking teams in Europe, we shouldn't have to worry about Barca outnumbering us in midfield" or "It's Monaco lads, just pass it around then score like you usually do."

There is little to no English mentality anymore at these clubs though. It's not really an English tactical naivety. These teams don't play 4-4-2 anymore, there aren't these old style English number 9's, there aren't wingers beating a man and whipping in early balls for the big striker. There isn't a midfield warhorse, there are 1 or 2 old style English centre halves. That's it. The local identity of these sides have all but gone in terms of personnel and strategy. The tactical naivety is on the part of Messrs. Wenger, Mourinho, Pellegrini. The league and the clubs representing the league have probably got a little bit flabby and complacent, but there's very little that is English about any of these in a tactical, on-field sense.

When I say "English" I don't mean in terms of national culture, but the attitudes of those playing for/managing teams in the English Premier League.

I get that, but I do feel like shouting at the television when Souness is ranting on about how we don't do this or that as British teams. Keep up Graeme, these teams are British in name only.

Yeah, it does seem kinda strange that people seem to be nationalistically attached to a team comprised mostly of foreign nationals.

I must say when I've been to Spurs recently a lot of fans I've spoken to have been pleased that a couple of academy products have come through the ranks. Likewise at Saints. But those are exceptions these days and I think in the main it's icing on the cake more than anything. Fans want results really, they don't mind too much where the players come from if everything's going swimmingly.

Personally I like having lots of foreign nationals playing for my team. There's always international football if you want national homogeneity. A lot of people argue that the relative lack of English players in top flight teams damages England's ability to compete, but England have been shit since long before the Premier League was dominated by foreign players, largely due to managers cramming the top names from the Premier League into one incoherent team and the English media being absolute morons.

Oh Man City. At this rate I can see the battle for the league being between Chelsea and Arsenal.

Told you, guys, they have games in them where they drop points

I'm only going to whisper this, and I love his attitude and endeavour, but Harry Kane's number of goals this season (as well as the exit of the English clubs from European competitions) stand as some sort of monument to the mediocrity of our league.

So you think he's another Kevin Philips/James Beattie/Andy Johnson type rather than the second coming of Alan Shearer?

Very harsh on Kevin Phillips, Georgi!

That aside, he's somewhere in between those two groups.

1. Shearer



2. Kane/Phillips




4. Beattie
5. Johnson

Yeah Philips is a cut above those. Maybe Kane is about Defoe's level? The comparison was that all those had a season of high scoring but never backed it up too much after that.