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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:27 am 
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Thank you for suggestions, AyaMelie. What do you think about new order on main list?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:07 am 
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I remember Bruno suggesting that Three Stooges belong on main list and I am not opposed to it. I'd put them somewhere between Abbott and Costello and Bing Crosby.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:33 am 
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Updated list on first page. Second round of honorable mentions:

Alfred Abel
Dev Anand
Tadanobu Asano
Gene Autry
Charles Aznavour
Kevin Bacon
Jean-Louis Barrault
Richard Barthelmess
Jack Benny
Edgar Bergen
Henry Bergman
Milton Berle
Monte Blue
Claude Brasseur
Josh Brolin
Mel Brooks
George Burns
Bruce Campbell
Harry Carey Jr.
David Carradine
John Cassavetes
Lon Chaney Jr.
Cheech & Chong
Coluche
Buster Crabbe
Daniel Craig
Robert Cummings
John Cusack
Joe Dallesandro
Sammy Davis Jr.
Matt Dillon
Divine
Brad Dourif
Buddy Ebsen
Sam Elliot
Peter Falk
Charles Farrell
Barry Fitzgerald
Peter Fonda
Jamie Foxx
Andy García
John Garfield
Götz George
Jackie Gleason
Joseph Gordon-Lewitt
Stewart Granger
Christopher Guest
Kamal Haasan
Abdel Halim Hafez
William Haines
Robert Harron
Laurence Harvey
George "Gabby" Hayes
John Houseman
Tab Hunter
John Huston
Adel Imam
Burl Ives
Hugh Jackman
Georg John
Ben Johnson
Mathieu Kassovitz
Howard Keel
George Kennedy
Rajesh Khanna
Val Kilmer
Hardy Krüger
Uttam Kumar
Christopher Lambert
Evgeny Leonov
Tony Ka Fai Leung
Roddy McDowall
Mads Mikkelsen
Sal Mineo
Gaston Modot
Alfred Molina
Ricardo Montalbán
Roger Moore
Ivan Mozzhukhin
Mike Myers
Reggie Nalder
Bill Nighy
Ramon Novarro
George O'Brien
Daniel Olbrychski
Guy Pearce
George Peppard
Ron Perlman
Jacques Perrin
Slim Pickens
Dick Powell
Elvis Presley
Robert Preston
Dennis Quaid
Serge Raggiani
George Raft
Raimi
Ronald Reagan
Keanu Reeves
John C. Reilly
Pierre Richard
Charles "Buddy" Rogers
Will Rogers
Cesar Romero
Hrithik Roshan
Sabu
Hiroyuki Sanada
Adam Sandler
Andy Serkis
Farid Shawqi
Gary Sinise
Red Skelton
Patrick Stewart
Sol Kyung-gu
Song Kang-ho
Victor Sjöström
Ben Stiller
Mack Swain
Ken Takakura
Topol
Ernest Torrence
Massimo Troisi
Ulrich Tukur
H. B. Warner
Ken Watanabe
Hugo Weaving
Clifton Webb
Johnny Weissmuller
James Whitmore
Jeffrey Wright
Oleg Yankovsky
Ismail Yassine
Ahmed Zaki


Last edited by Tim on Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:21 am 
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First cluster:

Alfred Abel
Dev Anand
Tadanobu Asano
Gene Autry
Charles Aznavour
Kevin Bacon
Jean-Louis Barrault
Richard Barthelmess
Jack Benny
Edgar Bergen
Henry Bergman
Milton Berle
Monte Blue
Claude Brasseur
Josh Brolin
Mel Brooks
George Burns


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:12 am 
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I'd say it goes like this:

Listmakers
Dev Anand

Potential listmakers / Honorable mentions
Alfred Abel
Tadanobu Asano
Gene Autry
Kevin Bacon
Jean-Louis Barrault
Richard Barthelmess
Claude Brasseur
Josh Brolin
Mel Brooks

Potential honorable mentions
Jack Benny
Edgar Bergen
Henry Bergman
Monte Blue
George Burns

Drop outs
Charles Aznavour
Milton Berle

Feel free to call me out.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:55 pm 
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I'm having doubts over some of your possible list makers / honorable mentions. Gene Autry was probably, of all his professions, the least acclaimed for his film work (his credits in singing, radio and TV are much more impressive), and his filmography is weak. Josh Brolin has a pretty good filmography, but he loses against other popular character actors of the last 20 years that are already on the list or in the honorable mentions section, in my opinion. Mel Brooks is already on the directors list, and maybe it's because I'm from Europe, but I really don't see the reasons for the huge appreciation he gets in the United States. Sure, he's a beloved comedian, and he is among the EGOT winners, but as a director, his reputation rests on just three films: The Producers, Blazing Saddles and Young Frankenstein. As a film actor, his filmography is possibly even worse. He gets the AFI Life Achievement Award and all those other Life Achievement Awards, but some huge names haven't received that yet. That's pretty incomprehensible to me. But as I said, maybe that's because I'm from Europe.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Re: Brooks. I'd say Spaceballs, Silent Movie and History of the World have pretty good initial popularity and some lasting one. It's purely anecdoctical evidence, but for example my father is big fan of him so it's not like his appeal is limited to US. I wouldn't argue for other two.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Tiny Tim wrote:
Switched them.


I'm afraid a switch won't be sufficient.

I have finally found some time to look at the list, and I have to address a couple of things:
About Arnold Schwarzenegger/Bruce Lee:
You'd be hard pressed to find two more popular actors. Both ARE a top 5 in popularity and I think only Chaplin is clearly more popular worldwide. Their influence on the worlds of sports, fitness and health is remarkable. Lee's singlehandedly changed modern martial arts and influenced everyone that came after him and the same can be said about Arnie vis-à-vis the world of bodybuilding. Yes, I know this is not related to acting, but it HAS to count for something.
Both are immense popular icons as well (atleast top 10) in the US and worldwide. Schwarzenegger, and in addition to sports-related influence, is THE example of rags-to-riches, American dream for foreigners all over the world. The way he succeeded as an athlete, actor, governor and entrepreneur is still a model for immigrants. The only other example even remotely as popular is Madonna's. I'd even dare to say that both Lee and Schwarzenegger score more in popularity and cultural recognition than John Wayne (who currently sits at number 20). These two's popularity is INTERNATIONAL while Wayne is more of an "American" icon, and it is not like any of the three has some tremendous acclaim. So, the only criterion where Wayne is clearly the winner is body of work, and that stems from his collaboration with John Ford...but is it enough to warrant a placement 130 places ahead of Lee and more than 200 places ahead of Arnold? I think either Wayne loses a few ranks or Lee and Schwarzenegger go up, and I think I prefer the latter.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:15 pm 
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I would say, unlike Wayne, cultural impact of these two is not very acting related therefore such a big gap is generally justifable. Like we definitely need to overlook Arnie's political and bodybuilding careers and Lee's reputation as martial artist for sake of our list.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Next cluster:

Bruce Campbell
Harry Carey Jr.
David Carradine
John Cassavetes
Lon Chaney Jr.
Cheech & Chong
Coluche
Buster Crabbe
Daniel Craig
Robert Cummings
John Cusack
Joe Dallesandro
Sammy Davis Jr.
Matt Dillon
Divine
Brad Dourif


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:38 pm 
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I'd say it's pretty lackluster cluster. Maybe a honorable mention for Dallesandro and Divine for being important queer icons and for Carey Jr. for prolific collaboration with John Ford. Cusack and Dillon are pretty popular guys with solid careers but there's something lacking about them. You are free to make a case for others.

Listmakers
Nope

Potential listmakers / Honorable mentions
Harry Carey Jr.
Joe Dallesandro
Divine

Potential honorable mentions
David Carradine
John Cassavetes
Lon Chaney Jr.
John Cusack
Matt Dillon

Drop outs
Bruce Campbell
Cheech & Chong
Coluche
Buster Crabbe
Daniel Craig
Robert Cummings
Sammy Davis Jr.
Brad Dourif


Last edited by Tim on Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Wayne also has three Oscar nominations and one win, and several other roles that are generally considered to be oversights for nominations.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:24 am 
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AyaMelie wrote:
I'd even dare to say that both Lee and Schwarzenegger score more in popularity and cultural recognition than John Wayne (who currently sits at number 20). These two's popularity is INTERNATIONAL while Wayne is more of an "American" icon, and it is not like any of the three has some tremendous acclaim. So, the only criterion where Wayne is clearly the winner is body of work, and that stems from his collaboration with John Ford...but is it enough to warrant a placement 130 places ahead of Lee and more than 200 places ahead of Arnold? I think either Wayne loses a few ranks or Lee and Schwarzenegger go up, and I think I prefer the latter.

Wayne is the Western icon. Does any other actor characterize a genre the way Wayne does? And that clearly goes for an international level; as American as the Western itself may be, the genre's influence transcends well into Europe. I, as a German, wouldn't consider Arnie a bigger cultural icon than John fuckin' Wayne.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Buddy Ebsen
Sam Elliot
Peter Falk
Charles Farrell
Barry Fitzgerald
Peter Fonda
Jamie Foxx
Andy García
John Garfield
Götz George
Jackie Gleason
Joseph Gordon-Lewitt
Stewart Granger
Christopher Guest
Kamal Haasan
Abdel Halim Hafez
William Haines


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Movie Actors (Revision)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:22 pm 
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I love that y'all are doing this list, and I'm mostly in agreement with the order so far. But, one thing I'm wondering is how Ralph Fiennes is a greater actor than Liam Neeson (and more than 50 spots higher, for that matter). I don't see either one having any noteworthy influence, and then I'd imagine Liam's popularity and cultural significance outweigh any slight advantage Fiennes might have in acclaim. What were y'all thoughts on their positions?

I'm not sure why I'm comparing these two in particular; I guess it's because they've shared the same bill a couple times.


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