1. Eminem
2. Jay-Z
3. Jackson Browne
4. Elvis Costello
5. Gil-Scott Heron
6. Gerry Goffin/Carole King
7. Ice Cube
8. Geezer Butler
9. Ian Anderson
10. George Harrison
11. Frank Zappa
12. Gordon Lightfoot
13. James Taylor
14. Ian Curtis
15. Elliot Smith

Also a fairly strong one. Might seem as an overkill to have two rappers at the top but I think it's correct choice.

I would move Costello down then move Lightfoot and Smith up, and make a few small switches to get:

1. Eminem
2. Jay-Z
3. Jackson Browne
4. Gil-Scott Heron
5. Gordon Lightfoot
6. Ice Cube
7. Gerry Goffin/Carole King
8. Elvis Costello
9. Geezer Butler
10. George Harrison
11. Elliot Smith
12. James Taylor
13. Ian Anderson
14. Frank Zappa
15. Ian Curtis

Not too dissimilar this time

Taking into account your lists, here's how I would go:

1. Eminem
2. Jay-Z
3. Jackson Browne
4. Elvis Costello
5. Gil-Scott Heron
6. Gordon Lightfoot
7. Ice Cube
8. Gerry Goffin/Carole King
9. Geezer Butler
10. George Harrison
11. Elliot Smith
12. Frank Zappa
13. Ian Anderson
14. James Taylor
15. Ian Curtis

Basically, I'm closer to agreeing with Tim on Costello, and with jf on Lightfoot and Smith.

On the previous list, I think Difford is pretty acclaimed, so I would move him ahead of Cornell, and possibly higher.

Put Brian's list on a starting page. To the next one:

1. John Lennon
2. Jerry Leiber
3. Joni Mitchell
4. Joe Strummer
5. Jim Morrison
6. John Fogerty
7. John Mellencamp
8. John Hiatt
9. Jello Biafra
10. Joe Jackson
11. Jimi Hendrix
12. Jerry Cantrell
13. Jonathan Richman
14. Jim Croce
15. Jeff Magnum

Well, you're way to quick for me since I'll only have time to really look at these on weekends. Anyway, I'll try to chime in once in a while.


In the 4-8 range, Taupin seems pretty high, Andre pretty low. I'd probably have that one like this:

4. Kane
5. Bono
6. Andre
7. Wilson
8. Taupin

Also, Al Stewart at #10? I'd have thought he'd finish near the bottom here. And I'm saying this as a fan. What did he really do besides Year of the Cat (which is awesome) that anybody really knows? I'd move him down below Gibbard, maybe even Turner.

To be fair, Eddie Holland does seem a tad high here. Those early 'label' lyricists (Leiber, Holland, Pomus, maybe Smokey too) are pretty important influence-wise but are their lyrics really that great from an art standpoint (criterion 'acclaim' that is, I guess)? Mayfield was someone who really broke borders, Chuck D too, and the Boss is really acclaimed as a lyricist. I wouldn't have Holland higher than #6 really (probably not lower either). And then Pomus could move down a tad, just so we don't have them all next to each other. Maybe below Bowie.

Donald Fagen is misspelt.

I'd probably have Lightfoot lower (or maybe not on the list at all) as his being 'rock' is rather questionable. Certainly not ahead of Ice Cube.

Then, I'd like to ask whether anybody knows anything about the songwriting partnership of Goffin and King. To me it currently looks like Goffin wrote the lyrics for the songs where both are credited together (i.e. the Brill Building stuff) while King only wrote those for her solo offerings. This means that the two probably should not be listed together. Either way, I think they should move down.

Then, does Harrison really have to be ahead of Smith and Zappa? Can't Zappa be credited with making absurdism viable in rock lyrics? I could even see him ahead of Butler.

As for spelling mistakes, it's Elliott Smith and Gil Scott-Heron (not Gil-Scott Heron).

I know Morrison is pretty divisive as a lyricist but that seems pretty low for him. Much of his reputation rests on his lyrics. I could see him on top of this bunch.

Leiber I'd move down of course; not below Fogerty but at least below Joni. The rest looks ok to me. Except that it's Jeff Mangum, not Magnum.

How would you rank whom I called "those early 'label' lyricists", by the way? Just to not compare apples and oranges for a change.

My take:

1. Smokey
2. Leiber
3. Holland

4. Pomus
5. Goffin

Your order looks fine. Do you think any other pre-Dylan 50s - 60s lyricists could make an appearence on our list? Barry & Greenwich, Bryants, Sam Cooke, Otis Blackwell maybe?

Cooke certainly. Not sure about the rest.

To further stress my doubts about Lightfoot being on the list, here's some people you currently don't have (and how are they less rock than Lightfoot?): Buffy Sainte-Marie, Phil Ochs, Fred Neil.

So after paul's remarks I suggest the following

1. Bob Dylan
2. Bob Marley
3. 2Pac
4. Big Daddy Kane
5. Bono
6. André 3000
7. Bernie Taupin
8. Brian Wilson
9. Billy Joel
10. Billy Bragg
11. Beck
12. Ben Gibbard
13. Alex Turner
14. Al Stewart
15. Ben Harper

I don't think Wilson should be above Taupin though, paul. He's considered a genius but I think mostly for things other than lyrics. Some great lyrics sure, but I don't think it's enough.

1. Chuck Berry
2. Curtis Mayfield
3. Bruce Springsteen
4. Chuck D
5. Eddie Holland
6. Cat Stevens
7. David Bowie
8. Doc Pomus
9. Conor Oberst
10. Eddie Vedder
11. Donald Fagen
12. Chris Difford
13. Don Henley
14. Chris Cornell
15. Chris Collingwood & Adam Schlesinger

1. Eminem
2. Jay-Z
3. Jackson Browne
4. Elvis Costello
5. Gil Scott-Heron
6. Ice Cube
7. Frank Zappa
8. Geezer Butler
9. Elliott Smith
10. George Harrison
11. Ian Anderson
12. Gerry Goffin
13. Carole King
14. James Taylor
15. Ian Curtis

Removed Lightfoot and split Goffin and King.

1. John Lennon
2. Joni Mitchell
3. Jim Morrison
4. Jerry Leiber
5. Joe Strummer
6. John Fogerty
7. John Mellencamp
8. John Hiatt
9. Jello Biafra
10. Joe Jackson
11. Jimi Hendrix
12. Jerry Cantrell
13. Jonathan Richman
14. Jim Croce
15. Jeff Mangum

Generally, I like it. One thing though:


I think Goffin should probably be above King. Those are quite a few classic early pop lyrics he wrote then, while King mainly has Tapestry to her credit and some of those were even written by Goffin.