I'd say that it's an NBA/ABA list and whoever started the thread forgot to put the ABA part in.

Does DR. J have 30,000+ points, or 18,000+ points?

If the ABA doesn't count, how the fuck is Erving #15 all time just from the NBA?

How could he possibly rank ahead of Karl Malone and the others below him if the ABA is not counted?

Ten notches above Barkley just with his NBA career?

That's absurd.

Gilmore #72 with just his NBA Career? Ahead of Lanier and Rodman?

Clearly the ABA was counted in the rankings.

i'm so curious to hear your thoughts on what exactly happened to Wilt in '65 on the Warriors before the trade. since personalities don't matter, and players have perfect steady motivation all the time because they are professionals, why then did his WinShares per 48 go from .325 in '64 to .208 in '65 before the trade? you can't blame teammates because WinShares supposedly eliminates the team impact and just shows an individual player's value to winning (unless you want to admit WinShares is a load of horse shit, then I'm with you).

so what happened? clearly Wilt wasn't unmotivated, since he's a professional. he had the same coach, which is the only person who can impact a player, so you can't blame that. it wasn't that he was getting worse due to age, since he got better after the trade.

so what happened?

Well, one thing is that you can't look at a player's best season and expect that every season. Wilt had not established over time that he was worth .325 WS per 48. You need to look at 3 or 4 seasons to establish what his rate should be, which would put him at like .277 or so. He dropped down to .208 with the Warriors and then .233 after the trade to the 76ers. What this usually means is the player was playing with an injury that season, which maybe got a little better by the second half of the year. The next 3 seasons he was back up to his usual established rate of play at .275, .285 and .255. That would be my guess as to why he dropped of in the '65 season, but I'd have to research it more to see because I was only 7 years old during that season and not yet seriously interested in basketball.

Wilt led the league in WS/48 in 7 of his first 8 seasons, only missing that '65 season when he finished third behind Oscar and Russell.

Here's another thing that could have effected the Big Dipper that season.

Starting with the 1964-65 season the NBA tried to lessen the impact of big men — specifically Wilt Chamberlain — by widening the foul lane from 12 to 16 feet.

In the playoffs that season the Celts beat the 76ers by one point in game 7. I suppose that was Wilt's fault, right? Wilt went 12 for 15 with 30 rebounds for 30 points, but he was just 6 for 13 from the line. If he had gone 8 for 13 they would have won.

Russell shot 7 for 16 and scored 15 points with 29 rebounds and went 1 for 2 from the line. Sam Jones had 37 and Havlicek had 26. On Wilt's team Chet Walker had 24 points and the legendary Dave Gambee had 25.

The 76ers shot just .444 from the field. Other than Wilt they shot .373 from the field.

The Celtics shot .402 from the field.

Yes sir, it was Wilt's fault that they lost by one point in game 7.

lol

checks notes: '66-'68 MVP was Wilt Chamberlain


yeah, no. this ain't the reason

the mental gymnastics you are doing to avoid saying Wilt played worse because he wasn't motivated to play great and hated being on a bad team and wanted a trade, and that he is a human being and not a fantasy stat line...

Of course it's the reason. It took Wilt a season to adapt to the new rules, which were added specifically to keep him from dominating as much.

If it was motivation why did he only go from .208 to .233 after the trade?

The numbers clearly show that the rule change had a big effect on his value for that season.

Juan Soto refused to sign with Washington this season and demanded a trade. His stats with Washington are far better than his stats have been since the trade to San Diego. Are you gonna claim that this motivation thing only works in basketball?

SOTO STATS 2022
NATIONALS OPS .894 - 21 HR in 342 AB
PADRES......OPS .804 - 5 HR in 156 AB

Here are my top players by position (put in tiers)
PG
1. Magic Johnson

2. Jerry West
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Stephen Curry

5. Bob Cousy
6. Chris Paul

7. Isiah Thomas
8. John Stockton

9. Steve Nash
10. Jason Kidd
11. Walt Frazier

SG
1. Michael Jordan

2. Kobe Bryant

3. Dwyane Wade
4. James Harden

5. Allen Iverson

6. George Gervin
7. Clyde Drexler

8. Sam Jones

9. Hal Greer
11. Bill Sharman
12. Ray Allen
13. Reggie Miller

SF
1. Lebron James

2. Larry Bird

3. Julius Erving
4. Kevin Durant
5. Elgin Baylor

6. John Havlicek

7. Scottie Pippen
8. Rick Barry
9. Kawhi Leonard

10. Paul Arizin

PF
1. Tim Duncan

2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Bob Pettit
4. Karl Malone
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Charles Barkley

7. Dolph Schayes
8. Giannis Antetokounmpo

9. Elvin Hayes
10. Kevin Mchale

C
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Bill Russell
3. Wilt Chamberlain

4. Shaquille O' Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. George Mikan

7. Moses Malone

8. David Robinson

9. Patrick Ewing
10. Dwight Howard
11. Willis Reed
12. Dave Cowens
13. Bill Walton

Something's up, Man

Thinking Basketball podcast (Ben Taylor of Backpicks.com) is updating the top 40 that he put out on backpicks a few years back and just listening to someone give monster praise to Reggie Miller made me smile so much. it was great seeing him in the top 40, but hearing the case laid out is just magic. I'm done pretending like I didn't see what I saw being a Pacers fan in the 90s. if we saw basketball in the 90s like we see it today we would have considered him a top 10 player the entire time easily.


edit: "top 10" meaning when he played, not all-time lol

no, why would I? but motivation isn't the only thing. we see players in every sport have a tough time adapting to new teams, even when they wanted to go there. sometimes it works really quickly, sometimes it doesn't. why is that, you say?

because... these are human beings not robots you total fucking dipshit

i really don't mean to get so angry at someone, its just that you bring this out of me so easily and i hate you and i just see no reason to hide it.

but I'll bite, why is your baseball player suddenly of a completely different value now? since being human isn't a good answer for you, I'm guessing there is some other reason why athletes on new teams suddenly play significantly different?