250 Greatest Alternative Music Artists (Revision Version)

[pauldrach]

There's also no #89 on the main list.

[DmitryXenon]

So, maybe we can bring The Magnetic Fields back to the list? I think they've received enough critical acclaim to be here.

[Ryan]

So, maybe we can bring The Magnetic Fields back to the list? I think they've received enough critical acclaim to be here.

Exactly who I was thinking of bringing back to fill that gap. I even gave them a sizable bump to 221.

[Ryan]

I'd have The Strokes in the top 50-60

They did seem a little low, so I boosted them up to #60

[ManPerson]

I'd have Arctic Monkeys higher as well, probably more acclaimed than most of the artists right ahead of them with huge popularity as well.

[ManPerson]

The Verve also seems a bit low, Beach House too.

[Ryan]

moved Arctics, Beach House, the Verve, and a few others up.

[Ryan]

I submitted the new revision of the list to Lew a few weeks ago. Just waiting for it to be put on the site now.

[Drew]

Hey everyone
I used to contribute to this community about 20 years ago. Wanted to share my piece here-

IF I MAY BE SO BOLD

I think this list has a lot of the right names, BUT

I strongly suggest that this gets broken up into two phylogenetic trees, so to speak.

Below is a rough tree of the genres I think need to be separate


GROUP A: POST-PUNK
├── Punk (DO NOT INCLUDE)
│ ├── Punk Rock
│ │ ├── Pop Punk
│ │ ├── Hardcore Punk
│ │ │ ├── Post-Hardcore
│ │ │ │ ├── Emocore → Emo
│ │ │ │ └── Screamo
│ │ │ │ ├── Shoegaze/Dreamo
│ │ │ ├── D-Beat
│ │ │ ├── Crust Punk
│ │ │ └── Crossover Thrash
│ │ └── Riot Grrrl
│ └── Garage Punk
└── Post-2000 / Hybrid Lineages
├── Post-Punk Revival
├── Indie Tronica (rock/electronic fusion)
├── Post-Hardcore (modern)
├── Metalcore → Post-Metalcore / Melodic Metalcore
├── Post-Metal
├── Noise / Industrial Rock Fusion
└── Emo Revival


GROUP B:
├── Alternative & Indie
│ ├── Lo-Fi
│ ├── Jangle Pop
│ ├── Noise Pop
│ └── Twee Pop
├── Noise Rock
├── Gothic Rock
├── Dream Pop
├── Grunge
├── Britpop
└── College Rock

This way Sonic Youth and REM aren't on the same list. (Because heaven forbid or whatever)

I also deeply feel that Swans (#237) should be included in the top 20, and my bloody valentine (#44) should be in the top 10. If reduced to a Post-Punk only list, top 10 and top 5. This would also keep the monetary success of Alternative Rock from sinking the perfectly seaworthy ship of Post-Punk.

The case for my bloody valentine:
Almost every album recorded with a guitar and amp since "Loveless" has been influenced by how Keith Shields recorded and mixed his output. It cannot be overstated how revered and studied my bloody valentine is amongst musicians and musicophiles (and audiophiles too!).

The case for Swans:
Avant-Garde rock had been hung out to dry for many years when Swans formed in 1981. Post-Punk was a new and under utilized Genre, meanwhile progrock and the avant garde was becoming squeaky clean and leaning heavily into Jazz and produced to have forced accessibility. Swans was the first act to truly exploit this paradigm, reacting to New-Wave with 'No-Wave,' this movement used to include Sonic Youth as well. Swans formed the way for a Darker, Noisier sound- evoking a surreal, energized, and angry psychedelia like no other. Swans has ONLY bangers in the discography (if you're into this kinda crap) and were huge influence on bands like Korn, Tool, Chevelle, and even artists often seen as more "lighthearted" (Bjork, LCD soundsystems)

Television (#26) is a great example of why the genres should be separated: Television is post-punk and therefore not too old. But NGL dude I totally get the umbrella you cast here it is for sure representative of an audience grouping and I imagine hundreds of visitors resonated with 99% of the artists mentioned on it and were excited to see it!

Also, what about the Sleepers? from sf (NOT THE UK SLEEPERS)? the first post-punk band ever- founded the night the sex pistols began their quick demise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmdGhik ... rt_radio=1

Thanks for ingratiating my lunacy to everyone who reads this

[Ryan]

I have some replies to this and it is very early in the morning so here goes

GROUP A: POST-PUNK
├── Punk (DO NOT INCLUDE)
│ ├── Punk Rock
│ │ ├── Pop Punk
│ │ ├── Hardcore Punk
│ │ │ ├── Post-Hardcore
│ │ │ │ ├── Emocore → Emo
│ │ │ │ └── Screamo
│ │ │ │ ├── Shoegaze/Dreamo
│ │ │ ├── D-Beat
│ │ │ ├── Crust Punk
│ │ │ └── Crossover Thrash
│ │ └── Riot Grrrl
│ └── Garage Punk
└── Post-2000 / Hybrid Lineages
├── Post-Punk Revival
├── Indie Tronica (rock/electronic fusion)
├── Post-Hardcore (modern)
├── Metalcore → Post-Metalcore / Melodic Metalcore
├── Post-Metal
├── Noise / Industrial Rock Fusion
└── Emo Revival


GROUP B:
├── Alternative & Indie
│ ├── Lo-Fi
│ ├── Jangle Pop
│ ├── Noise Pop
│ └── Twee Pop
├── Noise Rock
├── Gothic Rock
├── Dream Pop
├── Grunge
├── Britpop
└── College Rock

The critical nomenclature these days is that both of these trees are one, because there's so much crossover.

To give an example, Husker Du started out as a hardcore punk band, but by the middle of their career, they slowed down, started emphasizing the hooks and melodies that had always been apparent in their music. By the time of New Day Rising their sound is basically the alternative rock that took over the world in the early 1990s.

"Alternative rock" is a meaningless term. Alternative to what exactly? Particularly after 1993, and maybe even earlier than that when REM and The Cure were having top 10 pop hits in the late 80s. But those bands are different from ZZ Top or Def Leppard right?

I tend to use "alternative" as an overarching term meaning a bunch of different genres under the same tree, and that is basically those two paths you have there into one. Basically, it's a combination of what Allmusic considers alternative, and what has been documented in books about the history of the genre like Our Band Could Be Your Life and Rip It Up and Start Again.

Splitting the post-punk, emo, etc. bands out of this list would feel like muddling part of the definition of what is alternative rock that has already been agreed upon. I think Sonic Youth and REM belonging on the same list would make sense, and the members of those two bands would probably agree with me.

I also deeply feel that Swans (#237) should be included in the top 20, and my bloody valentine (#44) should be in the top 10. If reduced to a Post-Punk only list, top 10 and top 5. This would also keep the monetary success of Alternative Rock from sinking the perfectly seaworthy ship of Post-Punk.

The case for Swans:
Avant-Garde rock had been hung out to dry for many years when Swans formed in 1981. Post-Punk was a new and under utilized Genre, meanwhile progrock and the avant garde was becoming squeaky clean and leaning heavily into Jazz and produced to have forced accessibility. Swans was the first act to truly exploit this paradigm, reacting to New-Wave with 'No-Wave,' this movement used to include Sonic Youth as well. Swans formed the way for a Darker, Noisier sound- evoking a surreal, energized, and angry psychedelia like no other. Swans has ONLY bangers in the discography (if you're into this kinda crap) and were huge influence on bands like Korn, Tool, Chevelle, and even artists often seen as more "lighthearted" (Bjork, LCD soundsystems)

Yes, Swans have the influence, but I think they're dwarfed by so many other influential bands in the meantime. Also they didn't have a lot of commercial success and that is part of the formula here. No wave music just wasn't an especially popular genre. Maybe I can see them rising into the top 200, but I can't see them in the top 100. There are too many bands with better cases than them. You can say a lot of the same things about The Chameleons, who started around the same time as Swans, have a lot of influence (Interpol in particular), but broke up just as Geffen was starting to put promotion weight behind their Strange Times album.

Television (#26) is a great example of why the genres should be separated: Television is post-punk and therefore not too old. But NGL dude I totally get the umbrella you cast here it is for sure representative of an audience grouping and I imagine hundreds of visitors resonated with 99% of the artists mentioned on it and were excited to see it!

I thought a lot about Television, because Marquee Moon came out in February 1977 before the Talking Heads or the Clash put out their debut albums. They were a CBGB band, they were contemporaneous with punk, but they invented what we now know as post-punk. I have taken them off the list, put them back on, put them on the influences list, maybe a half-dozen times over the past decade. Right now they are #9 on our influences list.

Also, what about the Sleepers? from sf (NOT THE UK SLEEPERS)? the first post-punk band ever- founded the night the sex pistols began their quick demise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmdGhik ... rt_radio=1

Thanks for ingratiating my lunacy to everyone who reads this

There's a lot of bands like this that I thought about including that were very early on what became the alternative music world but just don't do well in the criteria. Good example is the Sleepers' fellow San Francisco group The Units, who were doing electropunk stuff in the late 70s, have a very contemporary sound for a band that early, have a very important song in "High Pressure Days", but narrowly missed this list.

[Ryan]

the new list is live on the site. Thank you all for your input.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best ... tists.html

[DmitryXenon]

the new list is live on the site. Thank you all for your input.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best ... tists.html

I found a typo in the new version of the list: 186. Sloanv

[Ryan]

the new list is live on the site. Thank you all for your input.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best ... tists.html

I found a typo in the new version of the list: 186. Sloanv

This is probably a formatting error. I'll let Lew know about it.