Greatest Rock Artists Of All Time (Revision Version)

[Tim]

92. Pearl Jam
93. Jerry Lee Lewis
94. Rod Stewart
95. Paul McCartney/Wings
96. Lady Gaga
97. Coldplay
98. Green Day
99. Adele
100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
102. The Platters
103. Missy Elliott
104. Earth, Wind & Fire
105. Mary J. Blige
106. Wynonie Harris
107. Roy Brown
108. The Weeknd
109. George Michael/Wham!
110. The Shirelles

Figure Wynonie Harris/Roy Brown vs The Weeknd break down similarly as them v George Michael.

[ManPerson]

I'm also fine with that.

[Fido]

Sampson, on Spontaneous Lunacy:

"Roy Brown’s vocal prowess, stylistic versatility, deep song catalog and massive influence along with his immeasurable impact for coming up with the components of rock in the first place and spreading the sound to masses with hit after hit in its formative years make him among the Top 50 artists in rock history, yet over time Brown never received the widespread historical acclaim for such a vital career."

"After suffering a series of strokes in the 1970’s [Amos Milburn] lived on military benefits, losing a leg along the way, before passing away January 3, 1980 at the age of 52, silencing one of the top hundred rock artists ever."

"Elvis Presley with Love Me Tender, The Beatles with Yesterday, James Brown with It’s A Man’s, Man’s, Man’s World, Stevie Wonder with My Cherie Amour and Michael Jackson with You Are Not Alone… and those are arguably the Top Five rock artists of all-time in terms of objective qualifications."

I like to think Sampson actually had every placement of the list figured out, and instead of a list he left a series of easter eggs across his website, for us to find like treasure hunters.

[Fido]

I'm fine with that compromise. I still don't think Lewis' wins are small against Pearl Jam and I'd have Harris/Brown over Blige for their influence and dominance in early rock but it's not a big deal.

[Tim]

"Elvis Presley with Love Me Tender, The Beatles with Yesterday, James Brown with It’s A Man’s, Man’s, Man’s World, Stevie Wonder with My Cherie Amour and Michael Jackson with You Are Not Alone… and those are arguably the Top Five rock artists of all-time in terms of objective qualifications."

So I guess all we need now is to remove Dylan from the top five.

[ManPerson]

I'm fine with that compromise. I still don't think Lewis' wins are small against Pearl Jam and I'd have Harris/Brown over Blige for their influence and dominance in early rock but it's not a big deal.

I think you may be underrating Pearl Jam's influence a little bit, I think I remember Brett Alan saying something about Ten having more of an influence on 90s rock than Nevermind, which I don't agree with, but I think he definitely had a point about how many alt rock groups took influence from the band's sound and Eddie Vedder's vocal style.

[Brian]

Sampson, on Spontaneous Lunacy:

"Roy Brown’s vocal prowess, stylistic versatility, deep song catalog and massive influence along with his immeasurable impact for coming up with the components of rock in the first place and spreading the sound to masses with hit after hit in its formative years make him among the Top 50 artists in rock history, yet over time Brown never received the widespread historical acclaim for such a vital career."

"After suffering a series of strokes in the 1970’s [Amos Milburn] lived on military benefits, losing a leg along the way, before passing away January 3, 1980 at the age of 52, silencing one of the top hundred rock artists ever."

"Elvis Presley with Love Me Tender, The Beatles with Yesterday, James Brown with It’s A Man’s, Man’s, Man’s World, Stevie Wonder with My Cherie Amour and Michael Jackson with You Are Not Alone… and those are arguably the Top Five rock artists of all-time in terms of objective qualifications."

I like to think Sampson actually had every placement of the list figured out, and instead of a list he left a series of easter eggs across his website, for us to find like treasure hunters.

I know from the comments that he made when he was commenting on the list several years ago that at that time, his top 4 would have been Elvis, The Beatles, James Brown, and Stevie Wonder, in that order. But keep in mind that his criteria were a bit different from what's being used here.

[Fido]

Anyway, my take on the next group:

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Cream
111. The Weeknd
112. George Michael/Wham!
113. The Shirelles
114. Red Hot Chili Peppers
115. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
116. Joy Division/New Order
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana

[Tim]

Seems reasonable.

[Tim]

Not that Sampson's word is a gospel but I reckon Four Seasons and Billy Joel could make an appearance in this range looking into his posts about them.

Which brings us back to that. To start with, it's the Four Seasons, not the Four Tops, who are ten spots below the Who, and to confuse them might be an honest mistake, but I doubt the same mistake would've been made by saying The Guess Who rather than The Who. Secondly, lasting popularity is a way people who lose the commercial impact argument try and make up for it, but while that's not counted here (Commercial Impact is just that, chart hits and album hits), the Four Seasons are still just as popular as virtually any artist from that time frame. They have at least a dozen records in regular rotation on catalog radio, they had the hottest Broadway show based on their careers a few years back in "Jersey Boys" and their Greatest Hits Anthology on Amazon (a worldwide, non-demographic based mass media outlet) is ranked #165th in CD sales. By contrast The Who's best seller is ranked 1,342 overall. So even if you WERE to have lasting popularity included in the criteria, The Who lose that as well.

The Seasons influence is, or should be, obvious from the preponderance of the extreme use of the falsetto in 60's rock to their dense production and arranging to their songwriting and their musical impact at the time was extraordinarily high. The Who obviously have very strong credentials as well, but in the 60's they come up just short of the Four Seasons, even though when comparing both artist's ENTIRE career they'd win out easily. It wasn't the Who's fault the 60's came to an end just as they were in the midst of their peak stretch as artists, and therefore those years are split over two seperate decades lists, that's just the way it falls.

Obviously there were artists who used falsetto before Valli, but Valli was the one who popularized it (which is secondary influence) to the extent where it became far more commonly used in the 60's. Lou Christie for instance, who had 5 really big hits starting in 1963, including a #1 in Lightnin' Strikes, was essentially a Valli imitator. It was kind of a novelty, their records were even billed as by "The Four Seasons feautring the Sound of Frankie Valli", as if it was some weird special effect, but it was obviously pretty lasting musically.

The Who were always where they are on the 60's list, I'm pretty sure, since I created it. I have the revisions dating back four years and they haven't moved, nor have the Four Seasons. The Who do win in influence and a lot of that comes from the 60's, but the Seasons do have plenty themselves. They were the most important transition group from the vocal harmony sounds of the 50's (doo wop) which was essentially street corner acappella singing with rudimentary accompaniment, to the larger productions the 60's vocal groups who used those voices as part of a larger and much more dense sonic approach. You can see how that change still is felt today with vocal arrangements.

Re: Chicago, Joel, Clapton.
I'd give the nod overall to Billy Joel. His musical impact I think is being underrated considerably. He had a good fifteen year period where everything he did was well regarded. His songwriting was always very respected because he pulled off so many stylistic transititions and still kept his own musical identity intact - the movie-like "Scenes From An Italian Restaurant" to the refried doo wop of "The Longest Time" to the melodramatic shmaltz of "Just The Way You Are" to the funky "It's Still Rock 'n' Roll To Me" to the synth-rock of "Pressure" to the gospel-infused "River Of Dreams". All of it was seen, not as someone jumping on whatever trend of the moment that might get him airplay, but just another facet of his own style and artists respected that he was so versatile. He was always viewed as a musical peer by the big names - teaming up with Ray Charles, duetting in concert with Bruce Springsteen at the height of the Born In The U.S.A. era and getting a huge reception (it was one of those - "Holy shit, is that Billy Joel?!" moments that you wouldn't have gotten with Peter Cetera or Eric Clapton at the time jumping on stage with the Boss), doing a mega-tour with Elton John, he was prominent in the We Are The World event (though, then again so was Kenny Rogers...), marrying THE supermodel of the time (maybe all-time). He's somebody who you knew on sight, on sound, without having to be a fan. Some of that is cultural, but that counts too. Clapton's presence still stems from his work with the 60's bands, Chicago seems like they were bland hitmakers without personality (many casual listeners of the era probably couldn't identify by sight one of their members before someone like Cetera went solo), but Billy Joel just seems like a much more prominent figure on the musical landscape.

It should be noted too that Joel was a touring giant, with huge concerts and epic performances, especially for his style. I dunno, it just seems his stature looms larger than the others. Whether that's enough to squeak him into the Top 100, I don't know, one hundred people over 65 years isn't much, but if one these names was at #100 I'd immediately question it for Chicago because they do relatively poorly for all three other criteria (one of the few big hitmakers who left a very little footprint behind them other than the sales, most of which, as Bruce pointed out, are long since forgotten), and if Clapton was there I'd say somebody overrated him because of his name recognition. But if it was Joel, I might look at who he bumped off and make an argument for someone else to replace him, but I wouldn't do an immediate double-take and think it was incomprehensible. I think he wins the criteria, great in popularity, good in musical and cultural impact, a little influence. More well-rounded overall it looks like

[Tim]

If we are talking particular placement, I could see Four Seasons between George Michael and The Shirelles (though Samp himself wasn't too high on George Michael), Billy Joel between Joy Division and Eric Clapton.

[ManPerson]

I can get behind most of Sampson's points but I figure Billy Joel's acclaim is rather mixed for someone in this range of the list. I'm not against him being around Clapton and Lennon, though.

[ManPerson]

Anyway, my take on the next group:

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Cream
111. The Weeknd
112. George Michael/Wham!
113. The Shirelles
114. Red Hot Chili Peppers
115. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
116. Joy Division/New Order
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana

I'd have Lauryn Hill a bit higher. I think she's more popular and acclaimed than Cream while being less influential and I kind of think it makes sense for them to be back to back since both are artists who hold a high status despite short careers. I also think JD/NO clearly take acclaim and influence over the 111-114 group (except for The Shirelles ig).

Other than that, I'll take it

[Tim]

So, taking Man's feedback in. (Not inserting Four Seasons or Billy Joel for now, as we will give their group a second look soon enough I reckon).

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
111. Cream
112. Joy Division/New Order
113. The Weeknd
114. George Michael/Wham!
115. The Shirelles
116. Red Hot Chili Peppers
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana

[Fido]

Ok with Fugees/Lauryn being kinda higher, but Cream are still way more influential and I don't see how they don't win acclaim. Not only with their discography, they also kill in musical impact with each member being absolute top tier instrumentalists (you can say all are top five ever in rock) and top notch live performances.

Also fine with JD/NO raise but I think the Shirelles are being underrated. The most influential of the bunch, and a great string of hit singles at their peak. The Peppers vs JD/NO is also a tricky one: they kill in popularity, get dwarfed in acclaim (by not as much imo), and then it's a question of who wins influence. Fwiw, Ryan has the Peppers ahead on his alt list (though there Joy Division and New Order are not combined). I guess I'm fine with either ahead.

[Tim]

New Order is also generously placed on Zach's electronic artists list (#3) and while it has not been updated since 2012 I doubt they are gonna drop too hard.