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pauldrach wrote: Sun Jul 06, 2025 1:38 amAs I said, I don't see a problem with listing "Get Smart" on Brooks' list since the series is associated with him even though he eventually stopped directing any of it. Maybe renaming the list something like "Movie directors' top works" or even "Movie auteurs' top works" would currently be more apt but that'd open new cans of worms. Other opinions?

Thing is he didn't direct any of it. You have to define what "directing" means if it's something other than being credited as director.

I've often wondered if this applies to David Lynch + Twin Peaks. He wrote/created the series, but did not direct every episode of the original 2 seasons.

Sherick wrote: Mon Jul 07, 2025 12:26 pm

pauldrach wrote: Sun Jul 06, 2025 1:38 amAs I said, I don't see a problem with listing "Get Smart" on Brooks' list since the series is associated with him even though he eventually stopped directing any of it. Maybe renaming the list something like "Movie directors' top works" or even "Movie auteurs' top works" would currently be more apt but that'd open new cans of worms. Other opinions?

Thing is he didn't direct any of it. You have to define what "directing" means if it's something other than being credited as director.

Criteria: The movies were ranked according to their influence, their initial and lasting popularity, as well as their initial and lasting acclaim. Most lists rank the director's ten greatest films, while some directors with a particularly small filmography only have five films listed. Feature films, TV films, documentaries, short films, experimental films, essay films, TV miniseries and TV series that were created mainly by the director in question were all eligible.

I don't have to define what directing means if it isn't part of the criteria. For TV series, the criteria speak explicitly of "creating".

You could add a TV series if the director directed at least half of it, which makes Twin Peaks eligible for the Lynch list since he directed all of the third season plus the movie.

Fido wrote: Tue Jul 08, 2025 10:02 am You could add a TV series if the director directed at least half of it, which makes Twin Peaks eligible for the Lynch list since he directed all of the third season plus the movie.

That'd be cheating, considering that "The Return" is listed separately, and I wouldn't consider the original series and the movie a unified work either.

I don't think it's cheating listing it together since it's all Twin Peaks, and anyone who decides to watch it is going to watch the whole thing, regardless of how it's listed here.

OK, but we have different discussions going on now. What we do with TP is one thing but what about TV series in general? Do we want to

a) allow them if the director in question co-created them, and can be seen as the main driving force behind this creation?
b) allow them if the director in question created them on their own?
c) allow them if the director in question directed a majority of the episodes?
d) allow them if the director in question directed (almost) all of the episodes?
e) generally exclude them (exceptions for miniseries allowed)?

Could each of the three and a half people still interested in this give a short of vote (plus maybe reasons)?

I vote option a) because it means the least work for me.

Page 20 updates:

Mervyn LeRoy
1. I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang (1932)
2. Little Caesar (1931)
3. Gold Diggers of 1933 (1933)
4. Random Harvest (1942)
5. Quo Vadis (1951)
6. Mister Roberts [with John Ford] (1955)
7. Thirty Seconds over Tokyo (1944)
8. Waterloo Bridge (1940)
9. The Bad Seed (1956)
10. Five Star Final (1931)

Richard Lester
1. A Hard Day's Night (1964)
2. Superman II (1980)
3. Help! (1965)
4. The Three Musketeers (1973)
5. A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum (1966)
6. Petulia (1968)
7. The Knack ...and How to Get It (1965)
8. Robin and Marian (1976)
9. The Four Musketeers (1974)
10. Juggernaut (1974)

Barry Levinson
1. Rain Man (1988)
2. Good Morning, Vietnam (1987)
3. Diner (1982)
4. The Natural (1984)
5. Bugsy (1991)
6. Wag the Dog (1997)
7. Avalon (1990)
8. Sleepers (1996)
9. Young Sherlock Holmes (1985)
10. Disclosure (1994)

Shawn Levy
1. Deadpool & Wolverine (2024)
2. Free Guy (2021)
3. Night at the Museum (2006)
4. Real Steel (2011)
5. The Adam Project (2022)
6. Date Night (2010)
7. Night at the Museum: Secret of the Tomb (2014)
8. Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian (2009)
9. The Internship (2013)
10. Cheaper by the Dozen (2003)

Joseph H. Lewis
1. Gun Crazy (1950)
2. The Big Combo (1955)
3. My Name Is Julia Ross (1945)
4. Terror in a Texas Town (1958)
5. So Dark the Night (1946)
6. The Undercover Man (1949)
7. A Lawless Street (1955)
8. A Lady Without Passport (1950)
9. Retreat, Hell! (1951)
10. Boys of the City (1940)

Doug Liman
1. Edge of Tomorrow (2014)
2. The Bourne Identity (2002)
3. Swingers (1996)
4. Go (1999)
5. Mr. & Mrs. Smith (2005)
6. American Made (2017)
7. Fair Game (2010)
8. Road House (2024)
9. Jumper (2008)
10. Chaos Walking (2021)

Richard Linklater
1. Boyhood (2014)
2. Before Sunrise (1995)
3. Dazed and Confused (1993)
4. Before Sunset (2004)
5. Slacker (1990)
6. Before Midnight (2013)
7. Waking Life (2001)
8. School of Rock (2003)
9. A Scanner Darkly (2006)
10. Hit Man (2023)

Anatole Litvak
1. The Snake Pit (1948)
2. All This, and Heaven Too (1940)
3. Sorry, Wrong Number (1948)
4. Decision Before Dawn (1951)
5. Anastasia (1956)
6. City for Conquest (1940)
7. The Amazing Dr. Clitterhouse (1938)
8. Why We Fight: The Battle of Russia [with Frank Capra] (1943)
9. Confessions of a Nazi Spy (1939)
10. The Night of the Generals (1967)

Frank Lloyd
1. Mutiny on the Bounty (1935)
2. Cavalcade (1933)
3. The Sea Hawk (1924)
4. Oliver Twist (1922)
5. Blood on the Sun (1945)
6. If I Were King (1938)
7. Children of Divorce (1927)
8. A Tale of Two Cities (1917)
9. The Divine Lady (1928)
10. Berkeley Square (1933)

Ken Loach
1. Kes (1969)
2. I, Daniel Blake (2016)
3. The Wind That Shakes the Barley (2006)
4. Land and Freedom (1995)
5. My Name Is Joe (1998)
6. Riff-Raff (1991)
7. Cathy Come Home (1966)
8. Raining Stones (1993)
9. Sorry We Missed You (2019)
10. Sweet Sixteen (2002)

Joshua Logan
1. Picnic (1955)
2. South Pacific (1958)
3. Sayonara (1957)
4. Bus Stop (1956)
5. Paint Your Wagon (1969)
6. Fanny (1961)
7. Camelot (1967)
8. Tall Story (1960)
9. Ensign Pulver (1964)
10. I Met My Love Again [with Arthur Ripley] (1938)

Phil Lord & Christopher Miller

5. Clone High [with Bill Lawrence] (2002-2003)

Joseph Losey
1. The Servant (1963)
2. The Go-Between (1970)
3. Mr. Klein (1976)
4. Accident (1967)
5. The Prowler (1951)
6. The Boy with Green Hair (1948)
7. King & Country (1964)
8. M (1951)
9. The Damned (1962)
10. Time Without Pity (1957)

And the new list:

Michael Roemer
1. Nothing but a Man (1964)
2. The Plot Against Harry (1971)
3. Dying (1976)
4. Vengeance Is Mine (1984)
5. Children of Fate: Life and Death in a Sicilian Family [with Susan Todd, Andrew & Robert M. Young] (1993)

...which means I'm cool with Tim's suggestion.

I'll send the page 19 updates to lew.

EDIT: I didn't set the Mel Brooks update yet. I want a decision on TV series first.

I'd say Slacker takes influence by more than Before Midnight takes popularity while acclaim is pretty close (initial: Before Midnight, lasting: Slacker)

pauldrach wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 10:58 am OK, but we have different discussions going on now. What we do with TP is one thing but what about TV series in general? Do we want to

a) allow them if the director in question co-created them, and can be seen as the main driving force behind this creation?
b) allow them if the director in question created them on their own?
c) allow them if the director in question directed a majority of the episodes?
d) allow them if the director in question directed (almost) all of the episodes?
e) generally exclude them (exceptions for miniseries allowed)?

Could each of the three and a half people still interested in this give a short of vote (plus maybe reasons)?

I vote option a) because it means the least work for me.

I would at least want the director to have actually done some directing in order to be credited as a director. Brooks hadn't even done any work directing up to that point and unlike many other showrunners who this could be applied to, has zero directing credits on the show. I think Vince Gilligan directed like 5 episodes of Breaking Bad, but we'd probably consider that in a list of his work if we ever did one? It's an ambiguous situation, but it feels disingenuous to credit Brooks where credit might not be due.

Fair enough.

What I get for now is screw the Brooks update and leave everything else as it is now, right?

ManPerson wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 1:16 pm I'd say Slacker takes influence by more than Before Midnight takes popularity while acclaim is pretty close (initial: Before Midnight, lasting: Slacker)

I could see this going either way and am good with swapping.

pauldrach wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 10:58 am OK, but we have different discussions going on now. What we do with TP is one thing but what about TV series in general? Do we want to

a) allow them if the director in question co-created them, and can be seen as the main driving force behind this creation?
b) allow them if the director in question created them on their own?
c) allow them if the director in question directed a majority of the episodes?
d) allow them if the director in question directed (almost) all of the episodes?
e) generally exclude them (exceptions for miniseries allowed)?

Could each of the three and a half people still interested in this give a short of vote (plus maybe reasons)?

I vote option a) because it means the least work for me.

Since you are the one doing it I'm ok with however you prefer to do it. However, c) or d) make the most sense to me. A director can create a TV series and then have little to do with it for most of its run, see Matt Groening. If not directing, at least the director should be showrunner or have a creative hand.

Fido wrote: Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:27 pm

pauldrach wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 10:58 am OK, but we have different discussions going on now. What we do with TP is one thing but what about TV series in general? Do we want to

a) allow them if the director in question co-created them, and can be seen as the main driving force behind this creation?
b) allow them if the director in question created them on their own?
c) allow them if the director in question directed a majority of the episodes?
d) allow them if the director in question directed (almost) all of the episodes?
e) generally exclude them (exceptions for miniseries allowed)?

Could each of the three and a half people still interested in this give a short of vote (plus maybe reasons)?

I vote option a) because it means the least work for me.

Since you are the one doing it I'm ok with however you prefer to do it. However, c) or d) make the most sense to me. A director can create a TV series and then have little to do with it for most of its run, see Matt Groening. If not directing, at least the director should be showrunner or have a creative hand.

Yes, that could work. Anyway, I'll probably not go through all the lists again and check where this applies. Wherever any of you want to do this, feel free to. I kinda suspect Sherick wants the Abrams and Whedon lists changed though I don't think he ever explicitly stated that.

I think Buffy should count for Whedon at least. He directed a seasons worth of episodes for the show and was the showrunner as well as creator.