Movie Directors' Top Films

[pauldrach]

I'm curious about Elle vs Turkish Delight, The 4th Man vs Soldier of Orange and Drugstore Cowboy vs Elephant.

Turkish Delight may take initial popularity, but Elle takes lasting popularity much more easily. Critical acclaim seems a close win for Elle, audience acclaim a similarly close win for TD. Influence goes to TD for the breakthroughs of Verhoeven and Hauer mainly. I'd still give Elle the edge.

Initial popularity may be a close win for The Fourth Man but lasting popularity goes to SoO. Overall acclaim I'd say is another close win for SoO, with a particularly clear edge in audience acclaim. I don't think either has much influence.

Drugstore Cowboy vs. Elephant was one I went back and forth between myself. In the end, I decided that "Elephant" should probably be given the edge in just about every criterion except influence, of which DC may actually have less than I used to give it credit for.

[Dubrow555]

I'm curious if The Idiots' influence on the Dogma 95 Movement would be enough to move it up one slot.

[pauldrach]

I'm curious if The Idiots' influence on the Dogma 95 Movement would be enough to move it up one slot.

Comparing apples and oranges is always a little difficult but with regards to the more specific parts of your question: I wouldn't consider The Idiots' influence on the Dogma movement particularly big, having come after Breaking the Waves and Festen. Its technical influence (being one of the first films shot only with digital handheld cameras) is probably more profound than its influence on filmic form.

[ManPerson]

Drugstore Cowboy takes audience acclaim and initial acclaim + better critic ratings on RT and Metacritic so I'd probably give it acclaim over Elephant.

When adjusting for the recency bias on rating sites I'm not sure Elle's win in lasting popularity is all that big, and I'd argue not enough overcome Turkish Delight's influence.

[Dubrow555]

I'm curious if The Idiots' influence on the Dogma 95 Movement would be enough to move it up one slot.

Comparing apples and oranges is always a little difficult but with regards to the more specific parts of your question: I wouldn't consider The Idiots' influence on the Dogma movement particularly big, having come after Breaking the Waves and Festen. Its technical influence (being one of the first films shot only with digital handheld cameras) is probably more profound than its influence on filmic form.

I've never heard "Breaking the Waves" described as an official Dogma 95 film, as it breaks many of the rules. In terms of Festen - both movies premiered at Cannes 98' - essentially 3 days apart, so I suppose you could say that they were equal in terms of influence - but then again, it is rather niche. Just something I wanted to bring up.

[pauldrach]

I'm curious if The Idiots' influence on the Dogma 95 Movement would be enough to move it up one slot.

Comparing apples and oranges is always a little difficult but with regards to the more specific parts of your question: I wouldn't consider The Idiots' influence on the Dogma movement particularly big, having come after Breaking the Waves and Festen. Its technical influence (being one of the first films shot only with digital handheld cameras) is probably more profound than its influence on filmic form.

I've never heard "Breaking the Waves" described as an official Dogma 95 film, as it breaks many of the rules. In terms of Festen - both movies premiered at Cannes 98' - essentially 3 days apart, so I suppose you could say that they were equal in terms of influence - but then again, it is rather niche. Just something I wanted to bring up.

BtW is not an official Dogma film but it was von Trier's first flim after initiating Dogma 95 and Wiki describes it as the precursor of the movement. Fair enough about the close release dates. Anyway, how do you think it compares to Riget if you want Idioterne ahead?

[ManPerson]

Drugstore Cowboy takes audience acclaim and initial acclaim + better critic ratings on RT and Metacritic so I'd probably give it acclaim over Elephant.

When adjusting for the recency bias on rating sites I'm not sure Elle's win in lasting popularity is all that big, and I'd argue not enough overcome Turkish Delight's influence.

Paul, thoughts on this?

[pauldrach]

Drugstore Cowboy takes audience acclaim and initial acclaim + better critic ratings on RT and Metacritic so I'd probably give it acclaim over Elephant.

When adjusting for the recency bias on rating sites I'm not sure Elle's win in lasting popularity is all that big, and I'd argue not enough overcome Turkish Delight's influence.

Paul, thoughts on this?

Sorry, missed your post.

If DC takes these acclaim aspects over Elephant, it's not by very much. Elephant's win in lasting critical acclaim is clearly bigger than either of DC's acclaim wins. Since Elephant also takes popularity (initial and lasting) fairly easily, I'd still rather keep it ahead.

It's kinda hard to say whether you are overrating rating sites' recency bias or whether I am underrating it. To me 74k vs. 13k ratings (IMDb) and 129k vs. 15k views (Letterboxd) sounds pretty decisive. Yes, TD was a huge hit in the Netherlands but the Netherlands were and are a comparably small country and Elle simply was a bigger hit internationally if only in the arthouse market.

[ManPerson]

Ok, fair enough on Elephant and DC.

RE: Turkish Delight vs Elle

To level the playing field as much as I can, here's how both rank for their respective years on IMDb

Elle: 126
Turkish Delight: 47

It's a bit harder to easily rank films by number of watches on Letterboxd but based on popularity (which Letterboxd admittedly defines rather nebulously), here's where each film ranks for its respective year.

Elle: 105
Turkish Delight: 50

[pauldrach]

...and swapped.

[Dubrow555]

Do we wanna stick Frankenstein on GdT's list somewhere near the bottom just as a placeholder for now?

[ManPerson]

We might as well wait a few months.

[pauldrach]

It's very unlikely that it well eventually end up below Nightmare Alley and lew will like having a very recent film on one of these lists. So, yeah, I'll probably stick it at #8 for now.

[pauldrach]

Updates for page 35:

Charles Vidor
1. Gilda (1946)
2. Cover Girl (1944)
3. Hans Christian Andersen (1952)
4. Love Me or Leave Me (1955)
5. A Song to Remember (1945)
6. Ladies in Retirement (1941)
7. A Farewell to Arms (1957)
8. The Joker Is Wild (1957)
9. The Desperadoes (1943)
10. The Swan (1956)

King Vidor
1. The Big Parade (1925)
2. The Crowd (1928)
3. Duel in the Sun (1946)
4. Hallelujah! (1929)
5. Stella Dallas (1937)
6. Show People (1928)
7. The Champ (1931)
8. War and Peace (1959)
9. La Bohème (1926)
10. Street Scene (1931)

Denis Villeneuve
1. Dune: Part Two (2024)
2. Dune (2021)
3. Arrival (2016)
4. Blade Runner 2049 (2017)
5. Incendies (2010)
6. Sicario (2015)
7. Prisoners (2013)
8. Enemy (2013)
9. Polytechnique (2009)
10. Maelström (2000)

Thomas Vinterberg
1. The Celebration (1998)
2. The Hunt (2012)
3. Another Round (2020)
4. Far from the Madding Crowd (2015)
5. Submarino (2010)
6. Kursk (2018)
7. Dear Wendy (2005)
8. The Commune (2016)
9. Families Like Ours (2024)
10. It's All About Love (2003)

Luchino Visconti
1. The Leopard (1963)
2. Rocco and His Brothers (1960)
3. Death in Venice (1971)
4. Ossessione (1943)
5. La terra trema (1948)
6. The Damned (1969)
7. Senso (1954)
8. Bellissima (1951)
9. White Nights (1957)
10. Ludwig (1973)

Lana & Lilly Wachowski
1. The Matrix (1999)
2. Bound (1996)
3. The Matrix Reloaded (2003)
4. Sense8 [with J. Michael Straczynski] (2015-2018)
5. Cloud Atlas [with Tom Tykwer] (2012)
6. The Matrix Revolutions (2003)
7. Speed Racer (2008)
8. The Matrix Resurrections [Lana] (2021)
9. Jupiter Ascending (2015)
10. Antony and the Johnsons: Epilepsy Is Dancing (2009)

David Wain
1. Wet Hot American Summer (2001)
2. Role Models (2008)
3. Wet Hot American Summer: First Day of Camp [with Michael Showalter] (2015)
4. They Came Together (2014)
5. A Futile and Stupid Gesture (2018)
6. Wet Hot American Summer: Ten Years Later [with Michael Showalter] (2017)
7. Wanderlust (2012)
8. Medical Police [with Bill Benz] (2020)
9. Wainy Days (2007-2012)
10. The Ten (2007)

Taika Waititi
1. Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
2. Jojo Rabbit (2019)
3. What We Do in the Shadows [with Jemaine Clement] (2014)
4. Hunt for the Wilderpeople (2016)
5. Boy (2010)
6. Thor: Love and Thunder (2022)
7. Next Goal Wins (2023)
8. Eagle vs Shark (2007)
9. Two Cars, One Night (2003)
10. Team Thor (2016)

Andrzej Wajda
1. Ashes and Diamonds (1958)
2. Kanał (1957)
3. Man of Marble (1977)
4. The Promised Land (1975)
5. Danton (1983)
6. Man of Iron (1981)
7. The Maids of Wilko (1979)
8. A Generation (1955)
9. Without Anesthesia (1978)
10. Innocent Sorcerers (1960)

Raoul Walsh
1. White Heat (1949)
2. The Thief of Bagdad (1924)
3. The Roaring Twenties (1939)
4. The Big Trail (1930)
5. High Sierra (1941)
6. Regeneration (1915)
7. Gentleman Jim (1942)
8. Sadie Thompson (1928)
9. What Price Glory? (1926)
10. They Died with Their Boots On (1941)

Charles Walters
1. Easter Parade (1948)
2. High Society (1956)
3. Lili (1953)
4. Summer Stock (1950)
5. The Unsinkable Molly Brown (1964)
6. The Barkleys of Broadway (1949)
7. Good News (1947)
8. Please Don't Eat the Daisies (1960)
9. The Tender Trap (1955)
10. Don't Go Near the Water (1957)

James Wan
1. Saw (2004)
2. The Conjuring (2013)
3. Furious 7 (2015)
4. Insidious (2010)
5. The Conjuring 2 (2016)
6. Aquaman (2018)
7. Malignant (2021)
8. Insidious: Chapter 2 (2013)
9. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (2023)
10. Dead Silence (2007)

Wang Bing
1. Tie Xi Qu: West of the Tracks (2002)
2. The Ditch (2010)
3. 'Til Madness Do Us Part (2013)
4. Three Sisters (2012)
5. Dead Souls (2018)
6. Youth (Spring) (2023)
7. Mrs. Fang (2017)
8. Fengming, a Chinese Memoir (2007)
9. Youth (Hard Times) (2024)
10. Man with No Name (2010)

Andy Warhol
1. Chelsea Girls [with Paul Morrissey] (1966)
2. Blue Movie (1969)
3. Empire [with John Palmer] (1965)
4. Vinyl (1965)
5. Sleep (1964)
6. Blow Job (1963)
7. Screen Tests (1964-1966)
8. Lonesome Cowboys (1968)
9. My Hustler [with Chuck Wein] (1965)
10. Kiss (1964)

Peter Watkins (1935-2025)
1. The War Game (1966)
2. Edvard Munch (1974)
3. Punishment Park (1971)
4. Culloden (1964)
5. La Commune (Paris, 1871) (2000)
6. Privilege (1967)
7. Resan (1987)
8. Evening Land (1977)
9. The Freethinker (1994)
10. The Gladiators (1969)

Lois Weber
1. Suspense [with Phillips Smalley] (1913)
2. Where Are My Children? [with Phillips Smalley] (1916)
3. Hypocrites (1915)
4. Shoes (1916)
5. The Blot (1921)
6. The Merchant of Venice [with Phillips Smalley] (1914)
7. The Dumb Girl of Portici [with Phillips Smalley] (1916)
8. The Jew's Christmas [with Phillips Smalley] (1913)
9. Too Wise Wives (1921)
10. The Hand That Rocks the Cradle [with Phillips Smalley] (1917)

Apichatpong Weerasethakul
1. Tropical Malady (2004)
2. Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives (2010)
3. Syndromes and a Century (2006)
4. Blissfully Yours (2002)
5. Cemetery of Splendour (2015)
6. Memoria (2021)
7. Mysterious Object at Noon (2000)
8. Mekong Hotel (2012)
9. The Adventure of Iron Pussy [with Michael Shaowanasai] (2003)
10. Phantoms of Nabua (2009)

Paul Wegener
1. The Golem: How He Came into the World [with Carl Boese] (1920)
2. The Student of Prague [with Stellan Rye] (1913)
3. The Golem [with Henrik Galeen] (1915)
4. The Golem and the Dancing Girl [with Rochus Gliese] (1917)
5. Rübezahl's Wedding (1916)
6. The Pied Piper of Hamelin (1918)
7. The Yogi [with Rochus Gliese] (1916)
8. Living Buddhas (1925)
9. Hans Trutz in the Land of Plenty (1917)
10. A Man Wants to Get to Germany (1934)

Peter Weir
1. The Truman Show (1998)
2. Dead Poets Society (1989)
3. Picnic at Hanging Rock (1975)
4. Witness (1985)
5. Gallipoli (1981)
6. Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (2003)
7. The Year of Living Dangerously (1982)
8. The Last Wave (1977)
9. Fearless (1993)
10. The Way Back (2010)

Orson Welles
1. Citizen Kane (1941)
2. Touch of Evil (1958)
3. The Magnificent Ambersons (1942)
4. Chimes at Midnight (1965)
5. The Lady from Shanghai (1947)
6. The Stranger (1946)
7. Othello (1951)
8. F for Fake (1973)
9. The Trial (1962)
10. Mr. Arkadin (1955)

And the new list:

Alice Rohrwacher (1981-)
1. Happy as Lazzaro (2018)
2. La chimera (2023)
3. The Wonders (2014)
4. Le pupille (2022)
5. Heavenly Body (2011)

[ManPerson]

I'm curious about Dune vs Dune: Part Two, WWDitS and HftW > Jojo Rabbit, The Stranger and Othello vs F for Fake and The Trial.

I'd say Gallipoli takes acclaim and influence over Master and Commander so I'd move Master and Commander down two spots.

I feel like Speed Racer's lasting acclaim could push it ahead of Revolutions.

[pauldrach]

I moved Jojo Rabbit up. It was an oversight on my account on your revised 2010s list because his name was misspelt.

Dune 2 grossed more and has better acclaim from critics and audiences on rating/aggregate sites.

"The Stranger" was Welles' most commercially successful film and established him as a filmmaker. Also his fourth most popular film at the IMDb. "The Trial" and "F for Fake" both do very badly in initial reception (both popularity and acclaim). I could maybe see "F for Fake" above "Othello" but that's about as far as I'd go.

I'll comment on the rest later.

[ManPerson]

Ok, fair on all accounts.

[Fido]

So, will Dune 2 replace the first one on the all time list?