500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)

[Dubrow555]

So that means "The Tree of Life" is next on the chopping block...right?

[Tim]

I'd say there was nothing wrong with how Man approached the Birdman debate (finding entries near the bottom of the list which seemingly do better than it by criteria, finding other 2010s movies as replacements for it to keep the list balanced between the decades) although I guess he has a history with trying to remove it. Well, if he wants to, he might attempt arguing for Tree of Life's removal as well, but iirc it had it's defenders such as pauldrach.

[pauldrach]

Just to quickly chime in. Dubrow, there is nothing wrong with people making objective arguments, for which films to add or remove. There is a problem however, with people saying only "It's agreed upon." without countering objective arguments in an objective manner. If you think Birdman's place is apt, please counter MP's points by proving that his application of the criteria is somehow flawed.

[Dubrow555]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

[Fido]

For what it's worth, Oppenheimer only wins popularity against Birdman.

[Tim]

Well, Oppenheimer's popularity win is pretty big and it also excels in industry acclaim just like Birdman. I'd agree with Man that Birdman's influence isn't that big in a grand scheme of things even if it has more than Oppenheimer.

[Tim]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

I don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either. Sorry if I came across as dismissive in the past, Dubrow.

[ManPerson]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

I don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either.

If they did, Shrek and Iron Man would be on this list, Halloween would be in the top 75, and there would only be one 2010s film in the top 200.

[Tim]

[Dubrow555]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

I don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either. Sorry if I came across as dismissive in the past, Dubrow.

Thank you for saying that. I think I am going back to when we were assembling the top 500 list - and I used the criteria to suggest that two back-to-back Pixar movies should be switched - but that was dismissed for being too "nitpicking." I found it a bit frustrating when MP recently suggested that Spielberg be moved up (a whopping) 2 slots on the directors list, and in my head I was like.....okay??

But - I feel like the criteria is a lot more "by the book" in recent years on this forum for these lists, so I can be more respectful of that.

[Dubrow555]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

I don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either.

If they did, Shrek and Iron Man would be on this list, Halloween would be in the top 75, and there would only be one 2010s film in the top 200.

True, and I would imagine Avengers would be higher as well...ha.

[Tim]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

I don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either. Sorry if I came across as dismissive in the past, Dubrow.

Thank you for saying that. I think I am going back to when we were assembling the top 500 list - and I used the criteria to suggest that two back-to-back Pixar movies should be switched - but that was dismissed for being too "nitpicking." I found it a bit frustrating when MP recently suggested that Spielberg be moved up (a whopping) 2 slots on the directors list, and in my head I was like.....okay??

But - I feel like the criteria is a lot more "by the book" in recent years on this forum for these lists, so I can be more respectful of that.

I'd agree such a move would feel nitpicky as well unless it's a part of the larger revision but Spielberg is in higher region of the directors list than Toy Story 3 and Up (I assume you talking about them) are on the movies list so you can argue it's not quite 1:1.

[Fido]

Well, Oppenheimer's popularity win is pretty big and it also excels in industry acclaim just like Birdman. I'd agree with Man that Birdman's influence isn't that big in a grand scheme of things even if it has more than Oppenheimer.

It's pretty big also because it was involved in the best marketing campaign I can remember (Barbenheimer), and even then it was the least popular of the two films involved. So it wins one criterion, and its critical stature, as Man already said, doesn't seem to be going up. Not to be completely dismissive of it, but now that Birdman is also being discussed, I don't understand how one is being promoted so heavily while the other gets screwed. Especially while Nolan already has three films on the list.

[pauldrach]

Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.

I was only referring to this one particular case. Back when we did the initial revision of the all-time films, I argued against MP quite a few times, especially when judging more recent films. But in the end, the criteria should be decisive and MP simply happens to mostly apply them in such a thorough way that is usually hard to argue against.

[ManPerson]

Well, Oppenheimer's popularity win is pretty big and it also excels in industry acclaim just like Birdman. I'd agree with Man that Birdman's influence isn't that big in a grand scheme of things even if it has more than Oppenheimer.

It's pretty big also because it was involved in the best marketing campaign I can remember (Barbenheimer), and even then it was the least popular of the two films involved. So it wins one criterion, and its critical stature, as Man already said, doesn't seem to be going up. Not to be completely dismissive of it, but now that Birdman is also being discussed, I don't understand how one is being promoted so heavily while the other gets screwed. Especially while Nolan already has three films on the list.

I still think Oppenheimer's win in popularity is bigger than Birdman's wins in acclaim and influence. For whatever it's worth, looking at it a bit more, I think Oppenheimer fairly clearly takes acclaim and popularity over Dune.