Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2026 9:22 pm
So that means "The Tree of Life" is next on the chopping block...right?
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500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
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Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2026 10:24 pm
I'd say there was nothing wrong with how Man approached the Birdman debate (finding entries near the bottom of the list which seemingly do better than it by criteria, finding other 2010s movies as replacements for it to keep the list balanced between the decades) although I guess he has a history with trying to remove it. Well, if he wants to, he might attempt arguing for Tree of Life's removal as well, but iirc it had it's defenders such as pauldrach.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 3:22 am
Just to quickly chime in. Dubrow, there is nothing wrong with people making objective arguments, for which films to add or remove. There is a problem however, with people saying only "It's agreed upon." without countering objective arguments in an objective manner. If you think Birdman's place is apt, please counter MP's points by proving that his application of the criteria is somehow flawed.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 8:25 am
Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 10:25 am
For what it's worth, Oppenheimer only wins popularity against Birdman.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:10 am
Well, Oppenheimer's popularity win is pretty big and it also excels in industry acclaim just like Birdman. I'd agree with Man that Birdman's influence isn't that big in a grand scheme of things even if it has more than Oppenheimer.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:12 am
I don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either. Sorry if I came across as dismissive in the past, Dubrow.Dubrow555 wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 8:25 am Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 5:29 pm
If they did, Shrek and Iron Man would be on this list, Halloween would be in the top 75, and there would only be one 2010s film in the top 200.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:27 pm
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:30 pm
Thank you for saying that. I think I am going back to when we were assembling the top 500 list - and I used the criteria to suggest that two back-to-back Pixar movies should be switched - but that was dismissed for being too "nitpicking." I found it a bit frustrating when MP recently suggested that Spielberg be moved up (a whopping) 2 slots on the directors list, and in my head I was like.....okay??Tim wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:12 amI don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either. Sorry if I came across as dismissive in the past, Dubrow.Dubrow555 wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 8:25 am Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.
But - I feel like the criteria is a lot more "by the book" in recent years on this forum for these lists, so I can be more respectful of that.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:31 pm
True, and I would imagine Avengers would be higher as well...ha.ManPerson wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 5:29 pmIf they did, Shrek and Iron Man would be on this list, Halloween would be in the top 75, and there would only be one 2010s film in the top 200.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:50 pm
I'd agree such a move would feel nitpicky as well unless it's a part of the larger revision but Spielberg is in higher region of the directors list than Toy Story 3 and Up (I assume you talking about them) are on the movies list so you can argue it's not quite 1:1.Dubrow555 wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:30 pmThank you for saying that. I think I am going back to when we were assembling the top 500 list - and I used the criteria to suggest that two back-to-back Pixar movies should be switched - but that was dismissed for being too "nitpicking." I found it a bit frustrating when MP recently suggested that Spielberg be moved up (a whopping) 2 slots on the directors list, and in my head I was like.....okay??Tim wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:12 amI don't think all of ManPerson's suggestions get implemented either. Sorry if I came across as dismissive in the past, Dubrow.Dubrow555 wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 8:25 am Weird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.
But - I feel like the criteria is a lot more "by the book" in recent years on this forum for these lists, so I can be more respectful of that.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2026 4:42 am
It's pretty big also because it was involved in the best marketing campaign I can remember (Barbenheimer), and even then it was the least popular of the two films involved. So it wins one criterion, and its critical stature, as Man already said, doesn't seem to be going up. Not to be completely dismissive of it, but now that Birdman is also being discussed, I don't understand how one is being promoted so heavily while the other gets screwed. Especially while Nolan already has three films on the list.Tim wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:10 am Well, Oppenheimer's popularity win is pretty big and it also excels in industry acclaim just like Birdman. I'd agree with Man that Birdman's influence isn't that big in a grand scheme of things even if it has more than Oppenheimer.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2026 6:37 am
I was only referring to this one particular case. Back when we did the initial revision of the all-time films, I argued against MP quite a few times, especially when judging more recent films. But in the end, the criteria should be decisive and MP simply happens to mostly apply them in such a thorough way that is usually hard to argue against.Dubrow555 wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 8:25 amWeird how all the times I've used the criteria and they are considered "nitpicks" - but when MP uses it, it's considered Gospel.
Re: 500 Greatest Movies of All Time (Revision Version)
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2026 9:06 am
I still think Oppenheimer's win in popularity is bigger than Birdman's wins in acclaim and influence. For whatever it's worth, looking at it a bit more, I think Oppenheimer fairly clearly takes acclaim and popularity over Dune.Fido wrote: Sat Jan 24, 2026 4:42 amIt's pretty big also because it was involved in the best marketing campaign I can remember (Barbenheimer), and even then it was the least popular of the two films involved. So it wins one criterion, and its critical stature, as Man already said, doesn't seem to be going up. Not to be completely dismissive of it, but now that Birdman is also being discussed, I don't understand how one is being promoted so heavily while the other gets screwed. Especially while Nolan already has three films on the list.Tim wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 11:10 am Well, Oppenheimer's popularity win is pretty big and it also excels in industry acclaim just like Birdman. I'd agree with Man that Birdman's influence isn't that big in a grand scheme of things even if it has more than Oppenheimer.