Greatest Rock Artists Of All Time (Revision Version)

[Tim]

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Cream
111. The Shirelles
112. Joy Division/New Order
113. The Weeknd
114. Red Hot Chili Peppers
115. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
116. George Michael/Wham!
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana

Reckon you could argue RHCP win popularity by as much as Lauryn wins acclaim while influence is close which, with us prioritizing popularity over acclaim would mean RHCP win. I mean, they are one spot below Lauryn on Man's 1990s list with their 1980s work adding them some influence point and 2000s work popularity points. I'd give them acclaim and influence over George Michael as well.

[ManPerson]

Ok with Fugees/Lauryn being kinda higher, but Cream are still way more influential and I don't see how they don't win acclaim. Not only with their discography, they also kill in musical impact with each member being absolute top tier instrumentalists (you can say all are top five ever in rock) and top notch live performances.

Idk, I think The Score + Miseducation easily stack up against Cream's discography in acclaim while Lauryn Hill is obviously acclaimed as an all time great rapper so I don't think Cream's advantage in musical impact is as big as you make it out to be.

Also fine with JD/NO raise but I think the Shirelles are being underrated. The most influential of the bunch, and a great string of hit singles at their peak. The Peppers vs JD/NO is also a tricky one: they kill in popularity, get dwarfed in acclaim (by not as much imo), and then it's a question of who wins influence. Fwiw, Ryan has the Peppers ahead on his alt list (though there Joy Division and New Order are not combined). I guess I'm fine with either ahead.

[ManPerson]

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Cream
111. The Shirelles
112. Joy Division/New Order
113. The Weeknd
114. Red Hot Chili Peppers
115. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
116. George Michael/Wham!
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana

Reckon you could argue RHCP win popularity by as much as Lauryn wins acclaim while influence is close which, with us prioritizing popularity over acclaim would mean RHCP win. I mean, they are one spot below Lauryn on Man's 1990s list with their 1980s work adding them some influence point and 2000s work popularity points. I'd give them acclaim and influence over George Michael as well.

I guess I can't argue with any of this too much.

[Fido]

I can argue that The Weeknd only has popularity over RHCP and Lauryn, and that's even arguable against the Peppers.

[ManPerson]

I don't think popularity is particularly arguable against RHCP, but I could see him moved down a couple spots nonetheless.

[Tim]

A bit surprised Fido did not push for Purple higher tbh. Highly influential, highly popular in Europe.

[ManPerson]

I think Deep Purple's current placement makes perfect sense, personally.

[Fido]

I mean I guess they could be higher, but they only win influence against Lennon (though his popularity was of course helped by the biggest band in the world) and Clapton is a tricky one to judge personally with all his previous bands with which he made his most influential work. And I already argued for them when Maiden were ahead.

[Tim]

That's true, you did.

[Tim]

Thoughts?

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Cream
111. The Isley Brothers
112. The Shirelles
113. The Dominoes
114. The Clovers
115. Ruth Brown
116. Joy Division/New Order
117. Red Hot Chili Peppers
118. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
119. The Weeknd
120. George Michael/Wham!
121. Eric Clapton
122. John Lennon
123. Deep Purple
124. Santana
125. The Band
126. The Orioles
127. The Four Tops
128. The Cure
129. The Smiths
130. Blondie

[ManPerson]

Nothing I can't live with.

[Fido]

I like those changes. Looking at that, I'd have the Clovers over the Shirelles and the Dominoes. 15 straight top 10 hits in the R&B chart is hard to beat, Sampson calls them "the most succesful rock artists, full stop, of the first half decade of the fifties" while being comparable on the rest of the criteria. Probably Ruth Brown, the first Queen of Rock and Roll, above the Dominoes too. More popular overall, more acclaimed over time, and also very influential. I'd also have Blondie over The Cure and The Smiths, as they were way more popular and probably more influential across New Wave and later alt rock. On the Cure vs the Smiths, I don't mind the Cure being ahead and Ryan also has them ahead on his list, but I see the breakdown as Cure winning popularity (not by a lot), Smiths winning acclaim (not by a lot), so it comes down to influence, which I'd say the Smiths win (not by a lot). However I don't know enough about them to say I'm confident in that.

[Tim]

Not too shuure about it, Dominoes strike me as clearly more influential as you have to credit large part of Clyde McPhatters influence (#12 on Sampson's list) to them. Then there's Sixty Minute Man, one of the earliest rock crossover successes and their reputation as the top rock act of the early '50s. As for Shirelles, you have Will You Love Me Tomorrow ushering in girl group era. They also had more crossover success than Clovers with 2 #1 pop hits and 6 top 10 hits and, for what it's worth, also ranked higher on Samp's influence list (#55 v #76).

[ManPerson]

The Cure vs The Smiths, I don't really care too much either way, though I'd leaned towards The Cure's win in popularity being a bit bigger than The Smiths' win in acclaim.

I'm with Tim on Clovers placement.

[Brian]

Not too shuure about it, Dominoes strike me as clearly more influential as you have to credit large part of Clyde McPhatters influence (#12 on Sampson's list) to them. Then there's Sixty Minute Man, one of the earliest rock crossover successes and their reputation as the top rock act of the early '50s. As for Shirelles, you have Will You Love Me Tomorrow ushering in girl group era. They also had more crossover success than Clovers with 2 #1 pop hits and 6 top 10 hits and, for what it's worth, also ranked higher on Samp's influence list (#55 v #76).

I don't object to The Shirelles being ahead of The Clovers, but most of The Clovers R&B hits came before rock had crossed over to the pop charts, while The Shirelles entire career came after that, giving The Shirelles a big advantage that I would take into account when comparing the two.

[Tim]

100. Depeche Mode
101. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
102. The Platters
103. Jackie Wilson
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind & Fire
106. Mary J. Blige
107. Wynonie Harris
108. Roy Brown
109. Van Morrison
110. Cream
111. The Isley Brothers
112. Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons
113. The Shirelles
114. The Dominoes
115. The Clovers
116. Ruth Brown
117. Joy Division/New Order
118. Red Hot Chili Peppers
119. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
120. The Weeknd
121. George Michael/Wham!
122. Eric Clapton
123. John Lennon
124. Deep Purple
125. Santana
126. Billy Joel
127. The Band
128. The Orioles
129. The Four Tops
130. Blondie
131. Talking Heads
132. The Smiths
133. The Cure
134. Sex Pistols
135. Iron Maiden
136. Bad Bunny
137. Ariana Grande
138. Justin Timberlake
139. Oasis
140. TLC

[ManPerson]

Four seasons look a bit high, I think Shirelles and JDNO take acclaim and influence for instance.

Same with Billy Joel, I'd say he's behind in influence and acclaim compared to the group behind him, I'd have him next to Sex Pistols.

[Fido]

My take (I can agree with everything up to #125):

125. Billy Joel
126. Santana
127. The Band
128. The Orioles
129. The Four Tops
130. Justin Timberlake
131. Iron Maiden
132. Talking Heads
133. Blondie
134. The Smiths
135. The Cure
136. Oasis
137. Sex Pistols
138. TLC
139. Bad Bunny
140. Ariana Grande

Joel kills in popularity and musical impact, and his influence on later soft rock/singer songwriters shouldn't be underrated. Timberlake wins popularity over the alt-rock bunch and is very influential on later EDM-flavoured pop that dominated. Maiden too, only in metal. Talking Heads win influence and acclaim over Blondie imo. Oasis only lose influence against the Pistols. Then Bad Bunny at the end because I don't know what to do with him as I previously have said, I think he opens a can of worms about adding other Latin artists (which wouldn't be few), changing somewhat the perspective of the list to a global one instead of US centric, which was useful before because rock is an American style of music and most of the important artists and innovations came from there, etc. Grande is an artist who imo only has popularity, which she had even before recording anything, hasn't done anything new in her career so I don't see what influence she can have, and has little musical impact because what is there to praise outside of her voice? She could be considered an "industry plant", and having her over immortals doesn't sit right with me. I see her comparable to an Ed Sheeran, someone I would never consider for this range of the list.