Greatest Rock Artists Of All Time (Revision Version)

[Fido]

Disagree on that Usher bump. His influence comes down to being really successful and achieving crossover success, but he isn't an innovator and has little musical influece to speak of, unlike most of the group he would be jumping over, who are also way more acclaimed. Him being cited by other artists is more musical impact than anything, in which he does very well but not enough to beat people like Tribe or Patti Smith. He doesn't tie or win popularity against Chicago, they have sold more, have better chart success and have achieved that for a longer period of time.

[Tim]

So you'd keep him at bottom? Cause I'd say Ariana, Phil Collins, Bad Bunny, Hall & Oates and, to lesser extent, Chicago aren't particularly musically influential either.

[ManPerson]

I'd argue that Patti Smith and Tribe, who you bring up, beat Chicago in acclaim and influence as well.

[Tim]

Sure there are limits to this logic otherwise: The Clash is more influential and acclaimed than Elton John, same could be said for The Kinks and Public Enemy.

[ManPerson]

Disagree on that Usher bump. His influence comes down to being really successful and achieving crossover success, but he isn't an innovator
Neither are Chicago, necessarily. And most of their influence is in the jazz rock genre, which let's not overblow the importance of in the grand scheme of things.
and has little musical influece to speak of, unlike most of the group he would be jumping over, who are also way more acclaimed. Him being cited by other artists is more musical impact than anything, in which he does very well but not enough to beat people like Tribe or Patti Smith. He doesn't tie or win popularity against Chicago, they have sold more, have better chart success and have achieved that for a longer period of time.

I don't see Chicago's longevity as particularly relevant to the criteria.

In terms of Chicago having better chart success, I'd dispute that they clearly win in that category considering Usher has much stronger chart success in the UK and 6 more number one hits in the US (and that's not even taking into account Usher's success on the r&b charts).

[Tim]

A potential solution:

131. Frank Zappa & The Mothers of Invention
132. Etta James
133. Justin Timberlake
134. Blondie
135. Billy Joel
136. Martha & the Vandellas
137. Iron Maiden
138. Chic
139. Talking Heads
140. The Smiths
141. The Cure
142. Iggy Pop & the Stooges
143. Sex Pistols
144. Oasis
145. Daft Punk
146. TLC
147. Kate Bush
148. Roxy Music
149. Genesis
150. Eddie Cochran
151. Patti Smith
152. Lana Del Rey
153. Daryl Hall & John Oates
154. A Tribe Called Quest
155. Usher/Chicago
156. Chicago/Usher
157. Rush
158. Bad Bunny
159. Phil Collins
160. Ariana Grande

[Fido]

I wouldn't have Usher above Rush, as he only wins popularity. Having Chicago below Hall & Oates would be terrible as I don't think they beat them in anything.

Chicago's longevity is relevant because that's lasting popularity.

[Tim]

Better?

150. Eddie Cochran
151. Patti Smith
152. Lana Del Rey
153. A Tribe Called Quest
154. Chicago
155. Rush
156. Usher
157. Bad Bunny
158. Phil Collins
159. Daryl Hall & John Oates
160. Ariana Grande

[ManPerson]

I wouldn't have Usher above Rush, as he only wins popularity. Having Chicago below Hall & Oates would be terrible as I don't think they beat them in anything.

Chicago's longevity is relevant because that's lasting popularity.

I see lasting popularity as the popularity of music years after it's released, not artists making music for a long time.

[Tim]

I'd say longevity matters as pertains to this list as long as artist continues to release popular, acclaimed or, in rarer cases, influential material.

[Fido]

I don't know what Lana has on Tribe other than popularity. I guess I can live with something like this:

150. Eddie Cochran
151. Patti Smith
152. A Tribe Called Quest
153. Lana del Rey
154. Chicago
155. Rush
156. Usher
157. Hall & Oates
158. Bad Bunny
159. Phil Collins
160. Ariana Grande

[Tim]

I'd take it.

[Tim]

Wilson Pickett seems like the one we overlooked previously, more chart success than either Zappa or Etta, high peer acclaim/musical impact during the 60s, important influence on Southern soul & garage rock, top 20 on Samp's 1960s artists list, near the top 100 on Brian's old list. Janis Joplin also got shafted, sure, not great longevity but highly influential, cultural icon, acclaimed and even quite a bit of posthumous success with #1 single and album. Booker T & MGs I'd say is similar case to Chic, where part of their legacy is for their production/stint as a backing band rather than a lead artist but highly respected & influential nevertheless, top 40 on Samp's 1960s artists list. Also gave bumps to Alicia Keys (strong combo of popularity & acclaim), CSNY (same plus some cultural impact as well as influence on contemporary folk rock), Nas (I'd give him acclaim & influence over Bad Bunny clearly, among others), Kool & the Gang (great longevity and versatility and of course Celebration is one of these omnipresent songs)

130. The Four Tops
131. Wilson Pickett
132. Frank Zappa & The Mothers of Invention
133. Etta James
134. Justin Timberlake
135. Blondie
136. Janis Joplin/Big Brother and the Holding Company
137. Billy Joel
138. Martha & the Vandellas
139. Iron Maiden
140. Chic
141. Talking Heads
142. The Smiths
143. The Cure
144. Iggy Pop & the Stooges
145. Sex Pistols
146. Booker T. & the M.G.’s
147. Oasis
148. Daft Punk
149. TLC
150. Kate Bush
151. Roxy Music
152. Genesis
153. Eddie Cochran
154. Patti Smith
155. A Tribe Called Quest
156. Alicia Keys
157. Lana Del Rey
158. Nas
159. Chicago
160. Rush
161. Usher
162. Daryl Hall & John Oates
163. Bad Bunny
164. Crosby, Stills, Nash (& Young)
165. Phil Collins
166. Kool & the Gang
167. Cher
168. Diana Ross
169. Ariana Grande
170. R. Kelly

[ManPerson]

I'd say The Smiths and The Cure take popularity (at least they take lasting pretty easily) and acclaim over Janis Joplin while being quite influential in their own right. So I'd have her lower.

[Fido]

My take:

131. Frank Zappa
132. Etta James
133. Wilson Pickett
134. Janis Joplin
135. Justin Timberlake
136. Blondie
137. Billy Joel
138. Crosby, Stills & Nash (& Young)
139. Martha & the Vandellas
140. Iron Maiden
141. Chic
142. Talking Heads
143. The Smiths
144. The Cure
145. Iggy Pop & the Stooges
146. Sex Pistols
147. Oasis
148. Daft Punk
149. TLC
150. Kate Bush
151. Roxy Music
152. Genesis
153. Nas
154. Booker T. & the M.G.’s
155. Eddie Cochran
156. Patti Smith
157. A Tribe Called Quest
158. Alicia Keys
159. Lana del Rey
160. Chicago
161. Rush
162. Usher
163. Hall & Oates
164. Bad Bunny
165. Phil Collins
166. Kool & the Gang
167. Cher
168. Ariana Grande
169. Diana Ross
170. R. Kelly

I'd say Etta and Zappa are both more influential and acclaimed than Pickett, even if not by much. Janis I'd have in that group too, far more influential than the Smiths/Cure and she only loses acclaim when not taking into account musical impact, which is enormous as one of the best singers, best live performers, and considering all the tributes she has received from some of the best artists of all time. Big bump for CSNY as I don't see where they are lacking. Influential on folk rock, singer/songwriters, their vocal harmonies, and especially cultural influence on the Woodstock generation and counter culture. Their acclaim and musical impact is off the charts, they were all considered geniuses at the top of their game, and their popularity is also great, with all their albums being multi-platinum sellers. Even their 80s albums sold more than a million copies! Nas I'd also have higher considering his top notch acclaim as a lyricist. The MGs are a tough act to judge as their more important work is as sidemen, that's why I placed them lower, with Cochran. Keys vs Lana I could see as going either way. And I think Ariana beats Ross in acclaim and popularity, however that's a weird bunch with Cher also being a famous actress, Ross' most important work being with the Supremes and R. Kelly as a producer.

[ManPerson]

I think I'd give Ariana acclaim and popularity over K&tG.