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Tim wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2026 11:12 pm

Tim wrote: Tue Mar 17, 2026 5:29 pm Well, I am zooming in on the top 100 for now, Madonna's debut can be included in the top 300.

Wouldn't True Blue be a better pick though, for another Madonna album? Ranked #69 to debut's #120 on Brett's 1980s list, her biggest seller along with Like a Virgin, cited as her artistic (not commercial though) breakthrough.

The debut is also way too low on Brett's list.

The debut is clearly more acclaimed, True Blue is more popular and since True Blue's sound isn't significantly different from the debut, I think the debut should clearly get more credit for the development of Madonna's sound and dance-pop as a whole.

Fido wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2026 5:41 am Rumours is now ahead of milestones of rock music, some of the most influential albums ever which are also acclaimed as masterpieces and half of them also superpopular.

Edit: and I wouldn't consider Amazing Grace a rock album.

Ok, fair enough.

Rumours is one of the most popular albums ever, is acclaimed as a masterpiece and is also fairly influential

In terms of comparing Rumours with the albums behind it, I don't think The White Album or Exile on Main St. (the two albums right behind it on Tim's latest version) are necessarily more influential than it. Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music inarguably loses to Rumours in both popularity and acclaim so I'm against moving Rumours back behind it.

Straight Outta Compton may look a bit high now. I think OK Computer and Lauryn Hill take acclaim and popularity over it.

How the hell is the White Album not more influential?? It was the next step in the normalization of the album as the main artistic form in rock music, with its wide range of styles and experimentation, a double album with no singles or even cover that still went multi-platinum, hell even containing what can be considered the first heavy metal song!

Modern Sounds loses inarguably in popularity if again we don't put anything into context. I believe what that album achieved in 1962 for a rock album is more impressive than what Rumours achieved. Same with acclaim: it's way ahead in AM which has always favoured classic rock compared to other styles (among other biases). Unless you also believe Rumours is a more renowned album than Bitches Brew.

Same arguments with Innervisions, Aretha or Zep. And I'm not pushing for these albums because they are by Stevie, Aretha or anyone: these artists are who they are partly BECAUSE of these albums. Exile is the only one I see as less of a milestone, even though I still think it's more influential than Rumours.

And I don't think I'm underrating Rumours when we are talking top 30 ever. I never said it should go down.

Fido wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2026 6:15 am How the hell is the White Album not more influential?? It was the next step in the normalization of the album as the main artistic form in rock music, with its wide range of styles and experimentation, a double album with no singles or even cover that still went multi-platinum, hell even containing what can be considered the first heavy metal song!

Modern Sounds loses inarguably in popularity if again we don't put anything into context. I believe what that album achieved in 1962 for a rock album is more impressive than what Rumours achieved. Same with acclaim: it's way ahead in AM which has always favoured classic rock compared to other styles (among other biases). Unless you also believe Rumours is a more renowned album than Bitches Brew

I don't think the AM rankings are some perfect list or anything, lol (and they're probably particularly biased against jazz), but when Rumours is way higher there and on both Rolling Stone lists, you can't just go out and say that AM has biases and call it a day.

Same arguments with Innervisions, Aretha or Zep. And I'm not pushing for these albums because they are by Stevie, Aretha or anyone: these artists are who they are partly BECAUSE of these albums. Exile is the only one I see as less of a milestone, even though I still think it's more influential than Rumours.

And I don't think I'm underrating Rumours when we are talking top 30 ever. I never said it should go down.

Even in context, Rumours still had over twice as many weeks at number one as Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music, i.e. in the context of their time, Rumours dominated the pop charts more than Modern Sounds. I'm all for putting albums in the context of their time, but I think it would be ridiculous to claim Modern Sounds is one of the top 5-10 most popular albums of all time while Rumours very clearly is.

In the context of their time, Modern Sounds was the first rock album by a black artist to go number one on the pop charts, the first r&b album to go number one, and it stayed for 14 weeks, surpassing every album by the only other rock act that had gone to the top (Elvis Presley, and Ricky Nelson for one week). The only exception to that was the soundtrack to Blue Hawaii. It wasn't surpassed until A Hard Day's Night, so that makes Ray Charles the outlier between the two most popular artists who ever existed. Meanwhile, Rumours arrived when rock was the most popular music genre, when its album market was well established, and it wasn't even Fleetwood Mac's first chart topper. Sure, it wins popularity, but what's the bigger achievement?

Not to take anything from Ray himself but it was obviously a country/rock crossover album. To act it was simply a rock album achieving these things would be to strip away some of the context in this case.

Modern Sounds may have been the bigger achievement, but Rumours has definitely been listened to more than Modern Sounds and it would be very difficult to argue otherwise.

Tim wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2026 10:08 am Not to take anything from Ray himself but it was obviously a country/rock crossover album. To act it was simply a rock album achieving these things would be to strip away some of the context in this case.

I don't see what you mean. Elvis had already had success in the country charts too. Rock and country crossovers were not uncommon.

Guess what I was saying that if we credit Modern Sounds for being unusually popular for a rock album in it's time it's worth acknowledging some of that popularity came from country rather than rock audiences.

Of course we can go on with the debates re: Rumours and others but here's the suggested top 300 revision for now.

1. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) - The Beatles
2. Pet Sounds (1966) - The Beach Boys
3. Revolver (1966) - The Beatles
4. Thriller (1982) - Michael Jackson
5. Nevermind (1991) - Nirvana
6. What's Going On (1971) - Marvin Gaye
7. Rubber Soul (1965) - The Beatles
8. Dark Side of the Moon (1973) - Pink Floyd
9. Live at the Apollo (1963) - James Brown
10. Are You Experienced? (1967) - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
11. Highway 61 Revisited (1965) - Bob Dylan
12. Abbey Road (1969) - The Beatles
13. Elvis Presley (1956) - Elvis Presley
14. Blonde on Blonde (1966) - Bob Dylan
15. It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (1988) - Public Enemy
16. London Calling (1979) - The Clash
17. Born to Run (1975) - Bruce Springsteen
18. Purple Rain (1984) - Prince
19. The Joshua Tree (1987) - U2
20. Songs in the Key of Life (1976) - Stevie Wonder
21. Led Zeppelin IV (1971) - Led Zeppelin
22. Who's Next (1971) - The Who
23. Rumours (1977) - Fleetwood Mac
24. The Beatles (The White Album) (1968) - The Beatles
25. Exile on Main Street (1972) - The Rolling Stones
26. Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music (1962) - Ray Charles
27. Innervisions (1973) - Stevie Wonder
28. I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You (1967) - Aretha Franklin
29. Led Zeppelin II (1969) - Led Zeppelin
30. Raising Hell (1986) - Run-D.M.C.
31. Tommy (1969) - The Who
32. Paranoid (1970) - Black Sabbath
33. The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) - The Velvet Underground & Nico
34. Back in Black (1980) - AC/DC
35. Appetite for Destruction (1987) - Guns N' Roses
36. OK Computer (1997) - Radiohead
37. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (1998) - Lauryn Hill
38. Straight Outta Compton (1988) - N.W.A
39. Saturday Night Fever (1977) - The Bee Gees and various artists
40. Tapestry (1971) - Carole King
41. Blue (1971) - Joni Mitchell
42. The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars (1972) - David Bowie
43. There's a Riot Goin' On (1971) - Sly & the Family Stone
44. The Doors (1967) - The Doors
45. Bringing It All Back Home (1965) - Bob Dylan
46. Ten (1991) - Pearl Jam
47. Born in the USA (1984) - Bruce Springsteen
48. Blood on the Tracks (1975) - Bob Dylan
49. Off the Wall (1979) - Michael Jackson
50. Licensed to Ill (1986) - Beastie Boys
51. Led Zeppelin (1969) - Led Zeppelin
52. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (2010) - Kanye West
53. Let It Bleed (1969) - The Rolling Stones
54. Never Mind the Bollocks... Here's the Sex Pistols (1977) - Sex Pistols
55. Electric Ladyland (1968) - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
56. Hotel California (1976) - Eagles
57. The Marshall Mathers LP (2000) - Eminem
58. The Chronic (1992) - Dr. Dre
59. Master of Puppets (1986) - Metallica
60. To Pimp a Butterfly (2015) - Kendrick Lamar
61. Automatic for the People (1992) - R.E.M.
62. Achtung Baby (1991) - U2
63. Stankonia (2000) - Outkast
64. Otis Blue/Otis Redding Sings Soul (1965) - Otis Redding
65. Murmur (1983) - R.E.M.
66. Metallica (The Black Album) (1991) - Metallica
67. The Wall (1979) - Pink Floyd
68. Bridge over Troubled Water (1970) - Simon & Garfunkel
69. Ramones (1976) - Ramones
70. Back to Black (2006) - Amy Winehouse
71. After the Gold Rush (1970) - Neil Young
72. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (1973) - Elton John
73. Synchronicity (1983) - The Police
74. A Hard Day's Night (1964) - The Beatles
75. Disraeli Gears (1967) - Cream
76. Astral Weeks (1968) - Van Morrison
77. Beggars Banquet (1968) - The Rolling Stones
78. The College Dropout (2004) - Kanye West
79. Illmatic (1994) - Nas
80. The Blueprint (2001) - Jay-Z
81. Paid in Full (1987) - Eric B. & Rakim
82. Kid A (2000) - Radiohead
83. Jagged Little Pill (1995) - Alanis Morissette
84. Graceland (1986) - Paul Simon
85. Remain in Light (1980) - Talking Heads
86. The Clash (1977) - The Clash
87. 3 Feet High and Rising (1989) - De La Soul
88. John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band (1970) - John Lennon
89. Superfly (1972) - Curtis Mayfield
90. Talking Book (1972) - Stevie Wonder
91. Sticky Fingers (1971) - The Rolling Stones
92. 1999 (1982) - Prince
93. Run-D.M.C. (1984) - Run-D.M.C.
94. Like a Virgin (1984) - Madonna
95. Control (1986) - Janet Jackson
96. Van Halen (1978) - Van Halen
97. Dookie (1994) - Green Day
98. Enter The Wu-Tang (1993) - Wu-Tang Clan
99. good kid, M.A.A.D city (2012) - Kendrick Lamar
100. Moondance (1970) - Van Morrison
101. A Night at the Opera (1975) - Queen
102. The "Chirping" Crickets (1957) - Crickets
103. The Low End Theory (1991) - A Tribe Called Quest
104. Here's Little Richard (1957) - Little Richard
105. Speakerboxxx/The Love Below (2003) - Outkast
106. Horses (1975) - Patti Smith
107. (What's the Story) Morning Glory? (1995) - Oasis
108. Beyoncé (2014) - Beyoncé
109. The Queen Is Dead (1986) - The Smiths
110. Ready to Die (1994) - The Notorious B.I.G.
111. Blood Sugar Sex Magik (1991) - Red Hot Chili Peppers
112. Harvest (1972) - Neil Young
113. The Number of the Beast (1982) - Iron Maiden
114. Machine Head (1972) - Deep Purple
115. Live at Leeds (1970) - The Who
116. Black Sabbath (1970) - Black Sabbath
117. The Band (1969) - The Band
118. Please Please Me (1963) - The Beatles
119. The Downward Spiral (1994) - Nine Inch Nails
120. The Score (1996) - Fugees
121. Stand! (1969) - Sly & The Family Stone
122. In The Court of the Crimson King (1969) - King Crimson
123. This Year's Model (1978) - Elvis Costello
124. Sign o' the Times (1987) - Prince
125. American Idiot (2004) - Green Day
126. Daydream Nation (1988) - Sonic Youth
127. In Utero (1993) - Nirvana
128. Rage Against The Machine (1992) - Rage Against The Machine
129. The Fame/The Fame Monster - Lady Gaga (2008; 2009)
130. FutureSex/LoveSounds (2006) - Justin Timberlake
131. Bo Diddley (1958) - Bo Diddley
132. Radio (1985) - LL Cool J
133. Wish You Were Here (1975) - Pink Floyd
134. Axis: Bold as Love (1967) - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
135. Surrealistic Pillow (1967) - Jefferson Airplane
136. Music from Big Pink (1968) - The Band
137. Lady Soul (1968) - Aretha Franklin
138. Is This It (2001) - The Strokes
139. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995) - The Smashing Pumpkins
140. Superunknown (1994) - Soundgarden
141. Hot Buttered Soul (1969) - Isaac Hayes
142. Elephant (2003) - The White Stripes
143. At Last! (1960) - Etta James
144. Doolittle (1989) - Pixies
145. 21 (2011) - Adele
146. 1989 (2014) - Taylor Swift
147. Bad (1987) - Michael Jackson
148. Mr. Tambourine Man (1965) - The Byrds
149. Boston (1976) - Boston
150. MTV Unplugged in New York (1994) - Nirvana
151. Rio (1982) - Duran Duran
152. Bat Out of Hell (1977) - Meat Loaf
153. Take Care (2011) - Drake
154. Lemonade (2016) - Beyonce
155. Parallel Lines (1978) - Blondie
156. Aftermath (1965) - The Rolling Stones
157. My Aim Is True (1977) - Elvis Costello
158. Marquee Moon (1977) - Television
159. Brothers in Arms (1985) - Dire Straits
160. 1984 (1984) - Van Halen
161. CrazySexyCool (1994) - TLC
162. Siamese Dream (1993) - The Smashing Pumpkins
163. All Eyez On Me (1996) - 2pac
164. Paul's Boutique (1989) - Beastie Boys
165. If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears (1966) - The Mamas & the Papas
166. Whitney Houston (1985) - Whitney Houston
167. Cosmo's Factory (1970) - Creedence Clearwater Revival
168. Deja Vu (1970) - Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
169. Trans-Europe Express (1977) - Kraftwerk
170. One Nation Under a Groove (1978) - Funkadelic
171. Sweetheart of the Rodeo (1968) - The Byrds
172. Curtis (1970) - Curtis Mayfield
173. Kick Out the Jams (1969) - MC5
174. Low (1977) - David Bowie
175. Dare (1981) - The Human League
176. The Slim Shady LP (1999) - Eminem
177. Green River (1969) - Creedence Clearwater Revival
178. Late Registration (2005) - Kanye West
179. Beauty and the Beat (1981) - The Go-Go's
180. Mothership Connection (1975) - Parliament
181. Dirt (1992) - Alice in Chains
182. Fear of a Black Planet (1990) - Public Enemy
183. Weezer (The Blue Album) (1994) - Weezer
184. Exodus (1977) - Bob Marley & the Wailers
185. Channel Orange (2012) - Frank Ocean
186. Blonde (2016) - Frank Ocean
187. Damn (2017) - Kendrick Lamar
188. Definitely Maybe (1994) - Oasis
189. Out of Time (1991) - R.E.M.
190. Aquemini (1998) - Outkast
191. Days of Future Passed (1967) - Moody Blues
192. Something Else by the Kinks (1967) - The Kinks
193. Life After Death (1997) - The Notorious B.I.G.
194. War (1983) - U2
195. Like a Prayer (1989) - Madonna
196. That's the Way of the World (1975) - Earth, Wind & Fire
197. Let's Get It On (1973) - Marvin Gaye
198. A Rush of Blood to the Head (2002) - Coldplay
199. Tha Carter lll (2008) - Lil Wayne
200. Call Me (1973) - Al Green
201. The Unforgettable Fire (1984) - U2
202. Me Against the World (1995) - 2pac
203. Closer (1980) - Joy Division
204. Disintegration (1989) - The Cure
205. Unknown Pleasures (1979) - Joy Division
206. Bookends (1968) - Simon & Garfunkel
207. Crosby, Stills & Nash (1969) - Crosby, Stills & Nash
208. Rhythm Nation 1814 (1989) - Janet Jackson
209. The Bends - (1995) - Radiohead
210. All Things Must Pass (1970) - George Harrison
211. Grace (1994) - Jeff Buckley
212. So (1986) - Peter Gabriel
213. Odelay (1996) - Beck
214. Doggystyle (1993) - Snoop Doggy Dogg
215. Catch a Fire (1973) - Bob Marley and the Wailers
216. Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs (1970) - Derek and the Dominos
217. The Piper at the Gates of Dawn (1967) - Pink Floyd
218. LA Woman (1971) - The Doors
219. Hunky Dory (1971) - David Bowie
220. Use Your Illusion I (1991) - Guns N' Roses
221. Use Your Illusion II (1991) - Guns N' Roses
222. Born to Die - Lana Del Ray (2012)
223. Random Access Memories (2013) - Daft Punk
224. At Fillmore East (1971) - The Allman Brothers Band
225. Imagine (1971) - John Lennon
226. Physical Graffiti (1975) - Led Zeppelin
227. Magical Mystery Tour (1967) - The Beatles
228. 808s & Heartbreak (2008) - Kanye West
229. Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not (2006) - Arctic Monkeys
230. In Rainbows (2007) - Radiohead
231. Quadrophenia (1973) - The Who
232. (Pronounced 'Leh-'nérd 'Skin-'nérd) (1973) - Lynyrd Skynyrd
233. The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society (1968) - The Kinks
234. Cheap Thrills (1968) - Big Brother and the Holding Company
235. Trout Mask Replica (1969) - Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band
236. Funeral (2004) - Arcade Fire
237. Dusty in Memphis (1969) - Dusty Springfield
238. Graduation (2007) - Kanye West
239. Forever Changes (1967) - Love
240. Bad Girls (1979) - Donna Summer
241. The Ice Man Cometh (1968) - Jerry Butler
242. Californication (1999) - Red Hot Chili Peppers
243. Rain Dogs (1985) - Tom Waits
244. Vs (1993) - Pearl Jam
245. Abraxas (1970) - Santana
246. Hysteria (1987) - Def Leppard
247. Slippery When Wet (1986) - Bon Jovi
248. Elvis Is Back! (1960) - Elvis Presley
249. Fulfillingness' First Finale (1974) - Stevie Wonder
250. Pearl (1971) - Janis Joplin
251. Court and Spark (1974) - Joni Mitchell
252. From Elvis In Memphis (1969) - Elvis Presley
253. Let It Be (1970) - The Beatles
254. Tracy Chapman (1988) - Tracy Chapman
255. Hounds of Love (1985) - Kate Bush
256. The River (1980) - Bruce Springsteen
257. The Message (1982) - Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five
258. Violator (1990) - Depeche Mode
259. Baduizm (1997) - Erykah Badu
260. Ill Communication (1994) - Beastie Boys
261. The Temptations Sing Smokey (1965) - The Temptations
262. Going To a Go-Go (1965) - Smokey Robinson and the Miracles
263. Green Onions (1962) - Booker T. and the MG's
264. Highway to Hell (1979) - AC/DC
265. Aenima (1996) - Tool
266. Unplugged (1992) - Eric Clapton
267. Wheels Of Fire (1968) - Cream
268. The Stone Roses (1989) - The Stone Roses
269. Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere (1969) - Neil Young and Crazy Horse
270. Captain Fantastic & The Brown Dirt Cowboy (1975) - Elton John
271. She's So Unusual (1983) - Cyndi Lauper
272. When We All Fall Asleep Where Do We Go (2019) - Billie Eilish
273. American Beauty (1970) - Grateful Dead
274. Pretenders (1979) - Pretenders
275. The Stranger (1977) - Billy Joel
276. Urban Hymns (1997) - The Verve
277. Darkness on the Edge of Town (1978) - Bruce Springsteen
278. Help! (1965) - The Beatles
279. Faith (1987) - George Michael
280. Odessey and Oracle (1968) - The Zombies
281. Nothing's Shocking (1988) - Jane's Addiction
282. Ray of Light (1998) - Madonna
283. Risqué (1979) - Chic
284. Freak Out! (1966) - The Mothers of Invention
285. AM (2013) - Arctic Monkeys
286. Anti (2016) - Rihanna
287. Fragile (1971) - Yes
288. Aqualung (1971) - Jethro Tull
289. Red (2012) - Taylor Swift
290. Madonna (1983) - Madonna
291. Blackstar (2016) - David Bowie
292. Come Away With Me (2002) - Norah Jones
293. Songs In A Minor (2001) - Alicia Keys
294. Get Rich or Die Tryin' (2003) - 50 Cent
295. The Eminem Show (2002) - Eminem
296. Toys in the Attic (1975) - Aerosmith
297. Blue Lines (1991) - Massive Attack
298. Daydream (1994) - Mariah Carey
299. Band on the Run (1973) - Paul McCartney and Wings
300. The Beach Boys Today! (1965) - The Beach Boys

Beyoncé's self titled is WAY out of its league. I don't know why it's above Lemonade, much less above Ready to Die, King Crimson, Daydream Nation, half of that range honestly.

And what is the Billie Eilish album even doing on the list? No influence, not in that range in acclaim, and doesn't have the popularity to make up for it. Compare it with Darkness on the Edge of Town, Freak Out, Ray of Light, Blue Lines...

I'd give Beyoncé's s/t influence and popularity over Lemonade.

Fido wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2026 7:22 am Beyoncé's self titled is WAY out of its league. I don't know why it's above Lemonade, much less above Ready to Die, King Crimson, Daydream Nation, half of that range honestly.

And what is the Billie Eilish album even doing on the list? No influence, not in that range in acclaim, and doesn't have the popularity to make up for it. Compare it with Darkness on the Edge of Town, Freak Out, Ray of Light, Blue Lines...

Clearly way more popular than any of those four, holds up with Freak Out and Ray of Light in acclaim while Darkness on the Edge of Town doesn't exactly strike me as all that influential either. With Blue Lines you may have a point.

Tim wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2026 7:38 am I'd give Beyoncé's s/t influence and popularity over Lemonade.

For sure.

I could see Fido's point, to some extent, though. Maybe it should be between ItCotCK and This Year's Model.

ManPerson wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2026 11:28 am

Clearly way more popular than any of those four, holds up with Freak Out and Ray of Light in acclaim while Darkness on the Edge of Town doesn't exactly strike me as all that influential either. With Blue Lines you may have a point.
[/quote]

No! No it fucking doesn't! Why am I seeing daily posts comparing albums consagrated as the best by the best artists ever with newer stuff just because they are so high on an unofficial and incomplete AM list?? With an album that just spent three non-consecutive weeks at #1, which is its best criterion, and is being included within the greatest albums of all time!! And I "may have a point" with BLUE LINES, top tier in acclaim and the first trip hop album!!

I don't want to shit on anybody's contributions, I think the movie lists are great, the yearly 2010s songs are great and a necessary improvement over Lew's ones, and with a dead forum almost any activity is appreciated, but I have to ask just what is the point of this? This can be considered one of the main lists of the site, and we made it as a compromise with other posters, some of them the most knowledgeable of certain eras, taking into account the other decade and subgenre lists and we agreed on the one posted, even if it's not perfect (how could it be?). Now, not even five years have passed, absolutely no new album is being considered, but since half of the people are not posting you can make huge changes that nobody agrees with. All the albums being added were already considered when we made the list, they were already high up on their decade lists, and we agreed they shouldn't be on this one. No, placing them slightly lower than you would because I complain is not a compromise, the main list IS the compromise. No, Beyoncé between ItCotCK and This Year's Model (THIS YEAR'S MODEL, one of the essential albums of new wave and considered a masterpiece for half a century!!) is not a fucking compromise. It's a super popular album released by an already super popular artist that has minimal influence, placing it at #193 IS the compromise. Ryan has it at #71 on the decade list! Don't we respect his work?

Anyway, rant over. I don't write it in bad faith, it's just exhausting having to discuss already discussed points in already discussed lists.