Greatest Rock Artists Of All Time (Revision Version)

[ManPerson]

I think it's also worth noting that AM definitely has a bit of a rockist tilt, which should be adjusted for when comparing acclaim. I'm very skeptical that Green Day, for example, win outright in acclaim against Gaga.

[ManPerson]

Anyway, some breakdowns

vs Grandmaster Flash
Acclaim: Seems close
Influence: Grandmaster Flash by a landslide
Popularity: Lady Gaga, probably by an even bigger landslide, but since we're weighting influence a bit more Grandmaster Flash could definitely be ahead

vs LL Cool J
Acclaim: Seems close
Influence: LL Cool J easily
Popularity: Gaga easily
I'm fine with LL over Lady Gaga as well as Grandmaster Flash

vs Aerosmith
Acclaim: Close
Influence: Probably Aerosmith
Popularity: Close

Okay, you might have a point in this case

vs Eagles
Acclaim: Leaning towards gaga
Influence: Close
Popularity: Probably the Eagles

I'm fine with Eagles ahead here as well

vs Guns n Roses
Acclaim: Guns n Roses
Influence: close
Popularity: Gaga

Same deal with The Police

I think between Eagles and Guns n Roses is a fair placement.

Also thinking we lowballed Eric B. & Rakim a bit

for example
vs LL Cool J
Influence: Eric B. & Rakim
Acclaim: Eric B. & Rakim
Popularity: LL Cool J easily

vs Grandmaster Flash
Influence: Grandmaster Flash
Acclaim: Eric B. & Rakim
Popularity: close

vs Aerosmith
Influence: Eric B. & Rakim easily
Acclaim: Eric B. & Rakim
Popularity: Aerosmith by a landslide

vs Eagles
Pretty much the same breakdown as Aerosmith except I think there's an even bigger difference in influence and popularity

vs Guns 'n' Roses
Influence: Eric B. & Rakim by a landslide
Acclaim: close
Popularity: Guns n Roses by a landslide

Not to toot my own horn but I like where I had Eric B. & Rakim originally, between LL Cool J and Aerosmith.

[Tim]

For what it worth, Samp's influence list has LL Cool J over Rakim and I can see why (popularizing albums within hip-hop, popularizing hardcore hip-hop as a whole, pretty much the first hip-hop solo superstar).

[ManPerson]

1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. James Brown
4. Bob Dylan
5. Michael Jackson
6. Madonna
7. Chuck Berry
8. The Rolling Stones
9. Stevie Wonder
10. Aretha Franklin
11. Ray Charles
12. The Beach Boys
13. Led Zeppelin
14. Jimi Hendrix
15. Fats Domino
16. Prince
17. Marvin Gaye
18. Kanye West
19. Little Richard
20. Jay-Z
21. The Who
22. Sam Cooke
23. Pink Floyd
24. David Bowie
25. Eminem
26. U2
27. Run-D.M.C.
28. Nirvana
29. Beyoncé
30. 2pac
31. The Supremes
32. Bruce Springsteen
33. Queen
34. Bob Marley & the Wailers
35. Buddy Holly & The Crickets
36. The Temptations
37. Neil Young
38. Kendrick Lamar
39. R.E.M.
40. Taylor Swift
41. Drake
42. Elton John
43. Whitney Houston
44. The Everly Brothers
45. Janet Jackson
46. Mariah Carey
47. Black Sabbath
48. Public Enemy
49. Otis Redding
50. The Byrds
51. Sly & the Family Stone
52. Metallica
53. Bill Haley & His Comets
54. Donna Summer
55. Smokey Robinson & The Miracles
56. The Bee Gees
57. The Kinks
58. ABBA
59. Bo Diddley
60. The Beastie Boys
61. Roy Orbison
62. The Clash
63. The Doors
64. Kraftwerk
65. Curtis Mayfield & The Impressions
66. AC/DC
67. Fleetwood Mac
68. Rihanna
69. The Velvet Underground
70. The Notorious B.I.G.
71. Joni Mitchell
72. Outkast
73. Parliament/Funkadelic/George Clinton
74. Dr. Dre
75. Simon & Garfunkel
76. Britney Spears
77. Creedence Clearwater Revival
78. Radiohead
79. N.W.A.
80. Lady Gaga
81. Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
82. LL Cool J
83. Aerosmith
84. Eagles
85. Guns N' Roses
86. The Police
87. Van Halen
88. Eric B. & Rakim
89. Coldplay
90. Al Green
91. The Ramones
92. Green Day
93. The Drifters
94. Adele
95. The Weeknd
96. Depeche Mode
97. Rod Stewart
98. Paul McCartney/Wings
99. Pearl Jam
100. The Grateful Dead
101. George Michael/Wham!
102. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
103. Mary J. Blige
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind, & Fire
106. Jerry Lee Lewis
107. Roy Brown
108. Wynonie Harris
109. The Platters
110. The Shirelles
111. Jackie Wilson
112. Van Morrison
113. Cream
114. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
115. Joy Division/New Order
116. Red Hot Chili Peppers
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana
121. The Cure
122. The Isley Brothers
123. The Dominoes
124. The Orioles
125. The Four Tops
126. The Smiths
127. Blondie
128. The Clovers
129. Ruth Brown
130. The Band
131. Bad Bunny
132. Ariana Grande
133. The Sex Pistols
134. Iron Maiden
135. Billy Joel
136. Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons
137. Justin Timberlake
138. Usher
139. Oasis
140. TLC
141. Talking Heads
142. Lana Del Rey
143. Daft Punk
144. Big Joe Turner
145. Johnny Otis
146. Eddie Cochran
147. Iggy Pop & the Stooges
148. Kate Bush
149. Roxy Music
150. Chic
151. Genesis
152. Rush
153. Etta James
154. Martha & the Vandellas
155. Frank Zappa
156. Patti Smith
157. Phil Collins
158. Justin Bieber
159. Daryl Hall & John Oates
160. Alicia Keys
161. Chicago
162. A Tribe Called Quest
163. Booker T. & the MG’s
164. Cher
165. Diana Ross
166. R. Kelly
167. Kool & the Gang
168. Wilson Pickett
169. Crosby, Stills, Nash (& Young)
170. Janis Joplin/Big Brother and the Holding Company
171. Nas
172. Sam & Dave
173. Pixies
174. Paul Simon
175. Dire Straits
176. Afrika Bambaataa
177. Frankie Lymon & the Teenagers
178. The Yardbirds
179. KISS
180. Elvis Costello
181. Frank Ocean
182. Bon Jovi
183. Alice Cooper
184. Carole King
185. The Righteous Brothers
186. Rick Nelson
187. Neil Diamond
188. Jefferson Airplane
189. Yes
190. Journey
191. James Taylor
192. Carl Perkins
193. The "5" Royales
194. Dionne Warwick
195. Def Leppard
196. Dion (& the Belmonts)
197. Gladys Knight & the Pips
198. The Mamas & the Papas
199. Johnny Ace
200. The Coasters
201. The Allman Brothers Band
202. Del Shannon
203. The White Stripes
204. Sonic Youth
205. King Crimson
206. The Cars
207. The O’Jays
208. Lynyrd Skynyrd
209. Screamin' Jay Hawkins
210. Salt-N-Pepa
211. Solomon Burke
212. Tom Petty
213. Bob Seger (& The Silver Bullet Band)
214. Hank Ballard & the Midnighters
215. Little Willie John
216. The Ventures
217. The Flamingos
218. The Animals
219. Judas Priest
220. Jethro Tull
221. The Pretenders
222. John Mellencamp
223. LaVern Baker
224. Bobby "Blue" Bland
225. Chuck Willis
226. War
227. The Moody Blues
228. Jackson Browne
229. Shirley & Lee
230. Jan & Dean
231. Ivory Joe Hunter
232. Boogie Down Productions
233. Emerson, Lake, & Palmer
234. Bonnie Raitt
235. The Dells

[ManPerson]

For what it worth, Samp's influence list has LL Cool J over Rakim and I can see why (popularizing albums within hip-hop, popularizing hardcore hip-hop as a whole, pretty much the first hip-hop solo superstar).

I certainly don't want to minimize LL Cool J's influence, since it's quite significant, but I feel like Run-D.M.C. deserve a lot (or even most) of the credit for this. I also think the influence of Rakim's relaxed, lyrically complex, rapping style is far more long lasting than LL Cool J's. Pretty much any highly regarded rapper (Tupac, Biggie, Nas, Jay-Z, Eminem Kendrick, I could go on) from the past 30 or so years clearly have a style that's closer to Rakim's than LL Cool J. Eric B. & Rakim also had very influential production as Paid in Full helped popularize sampling in hip hop. I'd even argue that Eric B. & Rakim are third to only Run-D.M.C. and Grandmaster Flash when it comes to influence in hip hop.

[Fido]

I'd say
Popularity: Dre fairly easily
Acclaim: Dre
Influence: N.W.A. fairly easily

Forgot to answer to this. I question Dre winning acclaim since N.W.A. is still his most acclaimed work along with The Chronic, and his high placement on AM is also due to songs like California Love or No Diggity, in which he's only a featured artist (honestly that's something that AM should change but I guess it won't happen now). I would only give him popularity (which was helped by N.W.A.), acclaim a tie and losing influence by more than he wins popularity. But whatever, I won't bug with that any more, you guys will think I'm a Dre hater.

Well, if we say Gaga only (sorta) popularized EDM and wasn't an innovator the argument is worth making re: Eagles and soft rock which had popular artists performing it before them, ditto for country rock, Guns n Roses and hard rock (who could be considered glam metal-adjacent and hardly antagonistic to that style either, they were no Nirvana). Sure, some bands cited both as influence but how it's fundamentally different from that wiki list of artists presumably influenced by Gaga?

C'mon, WHO? What was the big soft rock album before their debut in 1972? Or Desperado the year after? How is this equivalent to Gaga and EDM? Where is Gaga's Hotel California? 70s soft rock also produced albums like Rumours, where is the modern EDM equivalent to that?
Sure, GNR were no Nirvana and that's why we're not talking top 30 ever, but their mark on hard rock with their merge of bluesier and punkier influences is undeniable and bigger than Gaga's, since she was one of many others, and arguably not the most prominent (as I mentioned before, Timberlake's FS/LS predates her).

AM is rockist, true, but to say Green Day isn't more acclaimed than her is getting caught in their recent shitty music. She doesn't have a Dookie or and American Idiot, their acclaim during the height of their career was way over hers.

Why didn't you comment on the rest of my breakdowns? Saying "between Eagles and GNR is a fair placement" while ignoring that would put her ahead of Ramones or Van Halen for example, two artists with pretty straightforward breakdowns against her, is not fair at all. If that requires rearranging that whole group, so be it. It honestly seems you want to make this list, which can be considered the main one on the site, in a couple months, and that discussion is detrimental to that, instead of the point imo.

[ManPerson]

I'd say
Popularity: Dre fairly easily
Acclaim: Dre
Influence: N.W.A. fairly easily

Forgot to answer to this. I question Dre winning acclaim since N.W.A. is still his most acclaimed work along with The Chronic, and his high placement on AM is also due to songs like California Love or No Diggity, in which he's only a featured artist (honestly that's something that AM should change but I guess it won't happen now). I would only give him popularity (which was helped by N.W.A.), acclaim a tie and losing influence by more than he wins popularity. But whatever, I won't bug with that any more, you guys will think I'm a Dre hater.

The points about his features are pretty fair.im not sure he loses influence by more than he wins popularity, though, considering how influential The Chronic's production was.

Well, if we say Gaga only (sorta) popularized EDM and wasn't an innovator the argument is worth making re: Eagles and soft rock which had popular artists performing it before them, ditto for country rock, Guns n Roses and hard rock (who could be considered glam metal-adjacent and hardly antagonistic to that style either, they were no Nirvana). Sure, some bands cited both as influence but how it's fundamentally different from that wiki list of artists presumably influenced by Gaga?

C'mon, WHO? What was the big soft rock album before their debut in 1972?
Tapestry and Sweet Baby James
Or Desperado the year after? How is this equivalent to Gaga and EDM? Where is Gaga's Hotel California? 70s soft rock also produced albums like Rumours, where is the modern EDM equivalent to that?
Fair point.
Sure, GNR were no Nirvana and that's why we're not talking top 30 ever, but their mark on hard rock with their merge of bluesier and punkier influences is undeniable and bigger than Gaga's, since she was one of many others, and arguably not the most prominent (as I mentioned before, Timberlake's FS/LS predates her).

Hard rock as a whole was definitely on the decline when GNR was coming around though.

AM is rockist, true, but to say Green Day isn't more acclaimed than her is getting caught in their recent shitty music. She doesn't have a Dookie or and American Idiot, their acclaim during the height of their career was way over hers.

I was thinking more on the lines of musical impact as Green Day were considered sellouts by a large part of the punk community.

Why didn't you comment on the rest of my breakdowns? Saying "between Eagles and GNR is a fair placement" while ignoring that would put her ahead of Ramones or Van Halen for example,
Ramones seem comparable to LL Cool J and Rakim, so I could definitely see them moving up. In terms of Van Halen, I'm not sure their discography is more acclaimed than Gaga's, though they definitely get points for Eddie's guitar playing.
two artists with pretty straightforward breakdowns against her, is not fair at all. If that requires rearranging that whole group, so be it. It honestly seems you want to make this list, which can be considered the main one on the site, in a couple months, and that discussion is detrimental to that, instead of the point imo.

To be clear, I welcome this discussion wholeheartedly.

[ManPerson]

Here's what I suggest, but feel free to disagree further.

74. Simon & Garfunkel
75. Britney Spears
76. Creedence Clearwater Revival
77. Dr. Dre
78. Radiohead
79. N.W.A.
80. Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
81. The Ramones
82. LL Cool J
83. Eric B. & Rakim
84. Aerosmith
85. Eagles
86. Lady Gaga
87. Guns N' Roses
88. The Police
89. Van Halen
90. Coldplay
91. Al Green
92. Green Day
93. The Drifters

[Tim]

Drifters look a bit low as of now with Clyde era having high musical impact and Ben E. King's iteration being sorta precursor to more pop-influenced r&b such as Motown and popularizing string section within rock. Don't know the exact spot but I see them winning acclaim and influence over Gaga, Coldplay, Green Day, maybe even Al Green. I'd say there's even an argument for them winning acclaim and popularity over say, Ramones, NWA, Grandmaster Flash but that's more contentious.

[ManPerson]

I think Green Day are comparable to them in influence while Al Green takes acclaim, but I could see them a bit higher.

[Brian]

C'mon, WHO? What was the big soft rock album before their debut in 1972?
Tapestry and Sweet Baby James

Agreed, and I think Elton John's Honky Chateau, released 2 weeks before Eagles self-titled and a bigger album, qualifies too. Maybe also Paul Simon's solo debut. But as I recall, Sampson credited Eagles with some influence in the thread for this list in the old forum. Maybe for their production, but I'm not sure.

[Tim]

I was also thinking Carpenters, Bread and early Bee Gees for soft rock but I guess the former two are borderline rock; Dylan, Byrds, Everlys, Rick Nelson for country rock though only Dylan's country rock foray was succesful out of these.

[Tim]

C'mon, WHO? What was the big soft rock album before their debut in 1972?
Tapestry and Sweet Baby James

Agreed, and I think Elton John's Honky Chateau, released 2 weeks before Eagles self-titled and a bigger album, qualifies too. Maybe also Paul Simon's solo debut. But as I recall, Sampson credited Eagles with some influence in the thread for this list in the old forum. Maybe for their production, but I'm not sure.

Reckon I found it:

I think the Eagles are fairly comfortable in their lead commercially over Metallica, combining albums and singles. Metallica had a few singles hits, more than most metal bands, but not to the Eagles level and all of the Eagles albums were huge too. The Eagles musical impact at the time was pretty high. They've lost their luster somewhat after breaking up because they were kinda nose in the air perfectionists and that annoyed some people, but when they were churning out their hits one after another they were very well respected, more so than a lot of big name 70's artists. Their records were considered very well-produced, beautifully sung (we'll get into that more in a minute) and they were always considered great songwriters and an underrated band, including live. So I think their musical impact doesn't suffer during their era anyway.

As for their influence, it's more secondary in nature, as they weren't innovators, but they spearheaded that California stoner country-rock of the 70's, the Laurel Canyon hedonistic musical lifestyle, kind of epitomizing the post-hippie ideal - laid back, cynical, a little bitter, but still voicing their concerns. It really kind of symbolized the entire west coast scene at the time. There's a bunch of books about that whole time period, them and Jackson Browne and others, some focusing specifically on the country-rock movement, which they more than anyone sort of smoothed out and took the "twang" out of to make it more palatable to the mainstream, and some others written about the Laurel Canyon drugs and debauchery scene that they were a major part of and ties it all together. Also, their "steam cleaned" harmonies were done through excessive measures that indirectly led to the processed vocals of today where things are cleaned up in post-production gives them influence in a weird sort of way. They didn't do that themselves, there was no auto-tune then, but their obsession in this area definitely gave artists and producers the ambition to make the sound as clean as possible, almost sterile, which is what you see start to take shape the following decade before hip-hop and alternative and metal got back to rawer unprocessed sounds. Their influence in this way is actually something that causes some backlash today with their legacy and gave them that anal-retentive image they're stuck with. Fleetwood Mac was another who could be viewed that way, though not quite to that extent. It was an era of trying for an almost artificial perfection which came to dominate production once technology caught up to them and allowed for greater control over the finished product.

[Fido]

Good old Sampson always with the best explained takes. Tapestry, Sweet Baby James and Honky Chateau predate them, but they are much more singer-songwriter albums than the band-centered soft rock a la Eagles or Fleetwood Mac. I'm not saying they invented the sound, but they defined it more than those artists did.

I still stand by my breakdowns so I won't repeat them. Van Halen's debut to 1984 is a more acclaimed discography than Gaga's, and saying they "get points" for VH's guitar playing is underrating him a whole lot, and putting too much weight on critics lists and AM, outside of the usual musical impact. He's maybe the most acclaimed instrumentalist since he appeared (outside of Prince), Alex is acclaimed too, and they are acclaimed as a top tier live band.

My compromise, fwiw:

80. Eagles
81. Ramones
82. Eric B. & Rakim
83. LL Cool J
84. Grandmaster Flash
85. Aerosmith
86. The Police
87. Guns N' Roses
88. Van Halen
89. The Drifters
90. Al Green
91. Coldplay
92. Green Day
93. Lady Gaga

I'd have the Eagles even higher and Dre in this group but I decided to stop there. On LL vs Eric B, I see arguments for both sides. I'd give LL influence, as he also changed the range of topics rappers could write about, I Need Love is one of the most influential hip hop songs ever, along with all that Tim already said, but as Man said Eric B & Rakim are also very influential and it's a close criterion. It depends on how much weight you want to give to their acclaim win.

[Tim]

Thoughts:

1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. James Brown
4. Bob Dylan
5. Michael Jackson
6. Madonna
7. Chuck Berry
8. The Rolling Stones
9. Stevie Wonder
10. Aretha Franklin
11. Ray Charles
12. The Beach Boys
13. Led Zeppelin
14. Jimi Hendrix
15. Fats Domino
16. Prince
17. Marvin Gaye
18. Kanye West
19. Little Richard
20. Jay-Z
21. The Who
22. Sam Cooke
23. Pink Floyd
24. David Bowie
25. Eminem
26. U2
27. Run-D.M.C.
28. Nirvana
29. Beyoncé
30. 2pac
31. The Supremes
32. Bruce Springsteen
33. Queen
34. Bob Marley & the Wailers
35. Buddy Holly & The Crickets
36. The Temptations
37. Neil Young
38. Kendrick Lamar
39. R.E.M.
40. Taylor Swift
41. Drake
42. Elton John
43. Mariah Carey
44. Whitney Houston
45. The Everly Brothers
46. Janet Jackson
47. Black Sabbath
48. Public Enemy
49. Otis Redding
50. The Byrds
51. Sly & the Family Stone
52. Metallica
53. Bill Haley & His Comets
54. Donna Summer
55. Smokey Robinson & The Miracles
56. The Bee Gees
57. The Kinks
58. ABBA
59. Bo Diddley
60. The Beastie Boys
61. Roy Orbison
62. The Clash
63. The Doors
64. Kraftwerk
65. Curtis Mayfield & The Impressions
66. AC/DC
67. Fleetwood Mac
68. Rihanna
69. The Velvet Underground
70. The Notorious B.I.G.
71. Joni Mitchell
72. Outkast
73. Parliament/Funkadelic/George Clinton
74. Simon & Garfunkel
75. Britney Spears
76. Creedence Clearwater Revival
77. Dr. Dre
78. Radiohead
79. N.W.A.
80. Eagles
81. Ramones
82. Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
83. LL Cool J
84. Eric B. & Rakim
85. Aerosmith
86. Guns N' Roses
87. The Police
88. Van Halen
89. The Drifters
90. Lady Gaga
91. Coldplay
92. Al Green
93. Green Day
94. Adele
95. The Weeknd
96. Depeche Mode
97. Rod Stewart
98. Paul McCartney/Wings
99. Pearl Jam
100. The Grateful Dead
101. George Michael/Wham!
102. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
103. Mary J. Blige
104. Missy Elliott
105. Earth, Wind, & Fire
106. Jerry Lee Lewis
107. Roy Brown
108. Wynonie Harris
109. The Platters
110. The Shirelles
111. Jackie Wilson
112. Van Morrison
113. Cream
114. Fugees/Lauryn Hill
115. Joy Division/New Order
116. Red Hot Chili Peppers
117. Eric Clapton
118. John Lennon
119. Deep Purple
120. Santana
121. The Isley Brothers
122. The Dominoes
123. The Orioles
124. The Four Tops
125. The Cure
126. The Smiths
127. Blondie
128. The Clovers
129. Ruth Brown
130. The Band
131. Bad Bunny
132. Ariana Grande
133. The Sex Pistols
134. Iron Maiden
135. Billy Joel
136. Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons
137. Justin Timberlake
138. Oasis
139. TLC
140. Talking Heads
141. Lana Del Rey
142. Daft Punk
143. Big Joe Turner
144. Johnny Otis
145. Eddie Cochran
146. Iggy Pop & the Stooges
147. Kate Bush
148. Roxy Music
149. Chic
150. Genesis
151. Rush
152. Etta James
153. Martha & the Vandellas
154. Frank Zappa
155. Patti Smith
156. Phil Collins
157. Daryl Hall & John Oates
158. Alicia Keys
159. Chicago
160. A Tribe Called Quest
161. Booker T. & the MG’s
162. Usher
163. Cher
164. Diana Ross
165. R. Kelly
166. Kool & the Gang
167. Wilson Pickett
168. Crosby, Stills, Nash (& Young)
169. Janis Joplin/Big Brother and the Holding Company
170. Nas
171. Sam & Dave
172. Pixies
173. Paul Simon
174. Afrika Bambaataa
175. Frankie Lymon & the Teenagers
176. The Yardbirds
177. Dire Straits
178. KISS
179. Frank Ocean
180. Elvis Costello
181. Bon Jovi
182. Alice Cooper
183. Neil Diamond
184. Carole King
185. Justin Bieber
186. The Righteous Brothers
187. Rick Nelson
188. Jefferson Airplane
189. Yes
190. Journey
191. James Taylor
192. Carl Perkins
193. The "5" Royales
194. Dionne Warwick
195. Def Leppard
196. Dion (& the Belmonts)
197. Gladys Knight & the Pips
198. The Mamas & the Papas
199. Johnny Ace
200. The Coasters
201. The Allman Brothers Band
202. Del Shannon
203. The White Stripes
204. King Crimson
205. The Cars
206. The O’Jays
207. Lynyrd Skynyrd
208. Screamin' Jay Hawkins
209. Salt-N-Pepa
210. Solomon Burke
211. Tom Petty
212. Bob Seger (& The Silver Bullet Band)
213. Hank Ballard & the Midnighters
214. Sonic Youth
215. Little Willie John
216. The Ventures
217. The Flamingos
218. The Animals
219. Judas Priest
220. Jethro Tull
221. The Pretenders
222. John Mellencamp
223. LaVern Baker
224. Bobby "Blue" Bland
225. Chuck Willis
226. War
227. The Moody Blues
228. Jackson Browne
229. Shirley & Lee
230. Jan & Dean
231. Ivory Joe Hunter
232. Boogie Down Productions
233. Emerson, Lake, & Palmer
234. Bonnie Raitt
235. The Dells

[ManPerson]

I'll take it.