300 Greatest Movie Directors (Revision Version)

[pauldrach]

RIP Béla Tarr

[Zach]

Just saw that. Damn.

[ManPerson]

RIP

[Tim]

So, basically, I'm suggesting

1. Alfred Hitchcock
2. Charles Chaplin
3. John Ford
4. Akira Kurosawa
5. D.W. Griffith
6. Sergei M. Eisenstein
7. Orson Welles
8. Stanley Kubrick
9. Jean Renoir
10. Georges Méliès
11. Fritz Lang
12. Jean-Luc Godard
13. Luis Buñuel
14. Federico Fellini
15. F.W. Murnau
16. Ingmar Bergman
17. Carl Theodor Dreyer
18. Howard Hawks
19. Yasujirō Ozu
20. Martin Scorsese
21. Robert Bresson
22. François Truffaut
23. Cecil B. DeMille
24. Satyajit Ray
25. Steven Spielberg
26. Andrei Tarkovsky
27. Ernst Lubitsch
28. Michelangelo Antonioni
29. John Cassavetes
30. Billy Wilder
31. Buster Keaton
32. Roberto Rossellini
33. Kenji Mizoguchi
34. David Lynch
35. Woody Allen
36. Robert Altman
37. David Lean
38. Hayao Miyazaki
39. Erich von Stroheim
40. Abbas Kiarostami
41. Dziga Vertov
42. James Cameron
43. Frank Capra
44. Roman Polanski
45. Luchino Visconti
46. Sergio Leone
47. Stanley Donen
48. Werner Herzog
49. Michael Powell (& Emeric Pressburger)
50. Quentin Tarantino
51. Joel & Ethan Coen
52. Francis Ford Coppola
53. Robert J. Flaherty
54. Jean Vigo

55. Spike Lee
56. Raoul Walsh
57. Bernardo Bertolucci
58. Ridley Scott
59. Vittorio De Sica
60. Douglas Sirk
61. Victor Sjöström
62. Alexander Dovzhenko
63. Paul Thomas Anderson
64. Wong Kar-Wai
65. John Carpenter
66. Sam Peckinpah
67. Nicholas Ray
68. Mario Bava
69. Josef von Sternberg
70. Rainer Werner Fassbinder
71. Jean-Pierre Melville
72. Max Ophüls
73. Christopher Nolan
74. Wes Anderson
75. Sidney Lumet
76. George A. Romero
77. Maurice Tourneur
78. Busby Berkeley
79. David Cronenberg
80. Jean Cocteau
81. John Huston
82. Wim Wenders
83. Samuel Fuller
84. Krzysztof Kieślowski
85. Louis Feuillade
86. Terrence Malick
87. Edwin S. Porter
88. Chantal Akerman
89. Alain Resnais
90. Michael Curtiz
91. William Wyler
92. Claude Chabrol
93. Maya Deren
94. Chuck Jones
95. Pier Paolo Pasolini
96. Stan Brakhage
97. Lars von Trier
98. Jacques Tati
99. Richard Linklater
100. Preston Sturges

Continuing Man's revision to the top 100 if that's cool with him. All the changes I could think of for the time being was Wenders' bump and re-arranging of the #64-68 group he suggested.

[ManPerson]

Here's what I'd suggest

55. Spike Lee
56. Raoul Walsh
57. Bernardo Bertolucci
58. Ridley Scott
59. Vittorio De Sica
60. Paul Thomas Anderson
61. Douglas Sirk
62. Victor Sjostrom
63. John Carpenter
64. Wong Kar-Wai
65. Mario Bava
66. Nicholas Ray
67. Sam Peckinpah
68. Josef Von Sternberg
69. Alain Resnais
70. Rainer Werner Fassbinder
71. Jean Pierre-Melville
72. Max Ophuls
73. Christopher Nolan
74. Wes Anderson
75. Sidney Lumet
76. George A. Romero
77. Busby Berkeley
78. David Cronenberg
79. Chantal Akerman
80. Jean Cocteau
81. John Huston
82. Krzysztof Kieslowski
83. Louis Feuillade
84. Terrence Malick
85. Wim Wenders
86. Alexander Dovzhenko
87. Edwin S. Porter
88. Samuel Fuller
89. Michael Curtiz
90. William Wyler
91. Maya Deren
92. Chuck Jones
93. Pier Paolo Pasolini
94. Stan Brakhage
95. Lars Von Trier
96. Jacques Tati
97. Preston Sturges
98. Agnes Varda
99. Abel Gance
100. King Vidor

Explaining my changes:
Switching Peckinpah and Ray seems a bit unnecessary, even if I'm not necessarily against it.

- I'd definitely give PTA acclaim and body of work over Sirk and Sjostrom atp, though we should probably wait to see how OBAA does during awards season.
- I support moving up Wenders, but maybe a bit lower. I'd probably give Malick and Kieslowski acclaim over him, and that's the category they all clearly excel in.
- Alain Resnais seems pretty close to Melville and Fassbinder when it comes to acclaim and influence and I'd say his body of work is probably a bit stronger.
- I'd give Chantal Akerman acclaim and influence over Huston, Kieslowski and Malick. When compared to Cocteau, I'd give her acclaim, Cocteau influence while body of work is close.
- Dovzhenko seems high. Malick and Kieslowski are probably both more acclaimed at this point and clearly have stronger bodies of work as well. Romero seems to have stronger influence and body of work, Cronenberg loses acclaim but I'd argue he makes up for it in body of work.
- Fuller seems slightly high, since Malick and Kieslowski clearly have stronger acclaim and body of work. Edwin S. Porter seems to be more influential with a stronger body of work.
- Varda's acclaim has improved a ton over the past decade or so, and as a result her body of work has improved as well. Also fairly influential on Left Bank and future female filmmakers.
- King Vidor seems very similar to Abel Gance by the criteria, a bit beaker weaker in influence, but his body of work is also probably stronger. I'd clearly give him acclaim and body of work over Tourneur and he's also an influential director so I don't think Tourneur makes up for it in that category. When compared to Linklater, acclaim and body of work seem close while I'd give Vidor influence.
- Maurice Tourneur seems very high. Miniscule lasting acclaim (compared to others in his range of the list anyway) and a pretty weak body of work as well. Von Trier, Sturges and others in that range seem to clearly take acclaim and body of work.
- Claude Chabrol seems high. Directed arguably the first french new wave film which would give him points in influence, but his body of work and acclaim are not all that strong. Also seems to lose to Von Trier and Sturges in acclaim and body of work, probably even Cukor and Kazan.

[Tim]

Looked up Tourneur's influence and that's what I found. I guess you were not really disputing his influence but might be worth bringing up again, def a gamechanger of sorts.

Maurice Tourneur is among the absolute top-tier directors of his generation. True, he's not very well-known today. But his influence is huge. Among the first to use atmospheric inserts (shots that don't bring the story forward) and thus was an important progenitor of arthouse cinema. Also, some very influential early horror films. According to some, he directed the first proto-slasher in 1912. Very popular for a few films back then. Three films in the National Film Registry, that's something.

As for Akerman, thoughts?

Despite the recent S&S poll, Akerman will always be a mainly a critics' director, much more so than the other names that have been brought up. Her influence and acclaim really are limited to a pretty narrow field. If anything I see her lower. She's more than sixty spots ahead of Rivette and why would the two not be somewhat comparable?

Even if Ackerman is more acclaimed (which I don't even really buy), Malick's body of work is so much stronger.

[ManPerson]

I still think having the greatest film of all time (according to sight & sound anyway) definitely gives her the edge in acclaim over Malick and Kieslowski, but if others think the body of work win for both is big enough, I guess that's fine. I guess saying that Akerman clearly takes influence over both of them was a bit of a stretch as well.

I still think Tourneur should be lower, though that is indeed very significant influence. I'd still say he's clearly beaten by say Chuck Jones in acclaim and body of work while Porter and Feuillade have comparable influence, with Porter clearly taking body of work, acclaim probably being a tie, while Feuillade clearly takes acclaim, body of work probably being a tie. Fwiw, I had him at 101 in my draft, right below Vidor.

[Tim]

I was considering moving up PTA as well, given OBAA's success and acclaim but think Sirk's and especially Sjöström's influence win is much more fundamental than PTA's (arguable, imo) acclaim win.

[Tim]

And while I am not opposed to Dovzhenko moving down in theory, your demotion seems a little harsh, he remains an acclaimed and influential director and these are 4/5 of criteria, maybe I'd rather group him with someone like Jean Cocteau.

[ManPerson]

Fair on both accounts.

[Tim]

Varda's acclaim has improved a ton over the past decade or so, and as a result her body of work has improved as well. Also fairly influential on Left Bank and future female filmmakers.

I'd agree but I still don't think she beats most of the directors in that #101-120 range by criteria in order for us to add her to the top 100. Most of them either have a ton of influence, really strong body of work, rather strong combination of acclaim and influence or some combination of above.

[ManPerson]

I'd give her acclaim over Pedro Almodovar, influence is close while Almodovar takes body of work. Similar breakdown with Linklater. Compared to Jarmusch, she takes acclaim, he takes influence, body of work is close. Takes acclaim and body of work over Weber, though influence win is pretty big, Varda's wins are pretty clear as well. Compared with Hou-Hsiao Hsien acclaim is close, influence I'd lean towards Varda while I'd definitely give Varda body of work.

[Tim]

I guess I am a little sceptical of her winning acclaim over Linklater, Jarmusch, Almodóvar but maybe some bump is in order, you are right on this.

[Dubrow555]

I would support PTA being slightly higher.

[Tim]

So, trying to compare Varda with everyone currently outside of the top 100 ahead of her.

Jim Jarmusch

Influence: Jarmusch
Acclaim: close
Body of Work: Jarmusch close

Abel Gance

Influence: Gance
Acclaim: close
Body of work: close

Pedro Almodóvar

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of work: Almodóvar

Roger Corman

Influence: Corman
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of work: close

Lois Weber
Influence: Weber easy
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of work: close

Louis Malle

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of work: Malle

George Cukor

Influence: Cukor close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of work: Cukor

Hou Hsiao-Hsien

Influence: close leaning Hou
Acclaim: close leaning Hou
Body of work: Varda

Vsevolod Pudovkin

Influence: Pudovkin
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of work: Varda close

Elia Kazan

Influence: Kazan close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Kazan

King Vidor

Influence: Vidor
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Vidor

Dario Argento

Influence: Argento close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Argento

Cecil Hepworth

Influence: Hepworth easy
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Varda

Winsor McCay

Influence: McCay easy
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of Work: Varda

Andrzej Wajda

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of Work: Varda close

Zhang Yimou

Influence: close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Yimou

Louis & Auguste Lumière

Influence: Lumière bros easy
Acclaim: Varda easy
Body of Work: close

James Whale

Influence: Whale close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Whale

Clint Eastwood

Influence: close
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of Work: Eastwood easy

Todd Haynes

Influence: close
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of Work: Haynes

Chris Marker

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of Work: Varda

[ManPerson]

I still feel like you're underrating Varda's acclaim a bit, not to overemphasize the sight & sound poll, but according to this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing), her films had more votes than Jarmusch, Gance, Almodovar, Malle, Wajda and Marker's all had combined.

So, trying to compare Varda with everyone currently outside of the top 100 ahead of her.

Jim Jarmusch

Influence: Jarmusch
Acclaim: close
Body of Work: Jarmusch close

Abel Gance

Influence: Gance
Acclaim: close
Body of work: close

Pedro Almodóvar

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of work: Almodóvar

Roger Corman

Influence: Corman
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of work: Varda close

Lois Weber
Influence: Weber easy
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of work: Varda

Louis Malle

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of work: Malle

George Cukor

Influence: Cukor close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of work: Cukor

Hou Hsiao-Hsien

Influence: close leaning Hou
Acclaim: close leaning Hou
Body of work: Varda

Vsevolod Pudovkin

Influence: Pudovkin
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of work: Varda

Elia Kazan

Influence: Kazan close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Kazan

King Vidor

Influence: Vidor
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Vidor

Dario Argento

Influence: Argento close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Argento

Cecil Hepworth

Influence: Hepworth easy
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Varda

Winsor McCay

Influence: McCay easy
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of Work: Varda

Andrzej Wajda

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of Work: Varda close

Zhang Yimou

Influence: close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Yimou

Louis & Auguste Lumière

Influence: Lumière bros easy
Acclaim: Varda easy
Body of Work: close

James Whale

Influence: Whale close
Acclaim: Varda
Body of Work: Whale

Clint Eastwood

Influence: close
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of Work: Eastwood easy

Todd Haynes

Influence: close
Acclaim: Varda close
Body of Work: Haynes

Chris Marker

Influence: close
Acclaim: close
Body of Work: Varda

[ManPerson]

I could also see Marker a bit higher. I don't see any category where Wajda is clearly ahead of him, for instance.

[Tim]

I still feel like you're underrating Varda's acclaim a bit, not to overemphasize the sight & sound poll, but according to this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing), her films had more votes than Jarmusch, Gance, Almodovar, Malle, Wajda and Marker's all had combined.

Sure, but there have been numerous sight and sound polls, I don't want the acclaim criterion to be only about acclaim in 2022 as opposed to trying to gauge acclaim through the 130+ years of movie history, as hard as the latter exercise is.